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Server Time: 9/5/2008 12:12:42 AM PACIFIC |
 Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), thatpfunk, 31. Dec 2003 22:51 | ||
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| I still can't believe this hand when I think about it. Calling it a bad beat gives bad beats a bad name. I am playing 5-10L on Party and get dealt AKs on the button. There are about five callers to me and I raise. The big blind raises, original caller raises, a call, I cap. BB folds, raiser calls and caller calls. Three way. Flop is JsAdJh. I have top pair, but obviously fear the jacks. Back door flush also possibility. Two checks to me, and I bet out. Original bettor folds and the caller (who throughout the game had been a pretty good calling station) raises. I re raise, not wanting to put him on jacks. Yes I am stubborn and dumb at times but still dont like him with J anything, he was too weak of a player to check raise intelligently. I cap it and he calls. Turn is 3h. He checks I bet out again and he re raises me. I still dont put this player on Jack anything and think he is going after his top pair and flush draw. If he has the jack I am willing to take the loss. We cap it once again and the river is 5h giving us a board of Js Ad Jh 3h 5h. I say to my self, well he made his flush (no way he has the jack i still think) and of course he bets out. I sigh, and call and he of course wins... BUT, did he have AJ? no. Did he make his flush? no. This player called a preflop cap and capped it himself after the flop with... 2s 4s!!!! He made an A-5 straight with the turn and river and I almost had a heart attack. I still can't believe it. Had i lost to the flush, fine. Had I lost to the jacks, fine. I knew I was being an idiot, it was late, and I was at the end of a bad session ( you have all had them so I dont need to hear I should have never been in the hand). So, I still cant believe it, losing to such garbage still makes me shake my head. Online playing has become a joke and i wish he had flipped JJ in my face. Oh, he then proceeded to lose 500 in 45 minutes while i shook my head and wanted to light myself on fire. If anyone has heard of anything more absurd, Id love to know... gnite all. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), duquedelsol, 31. Dec 2003 23:06 | ||
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| <<I still can't believe this hand when I think about it. Calling it a bad beat gives bad beats a bad name...>> While I can see your frustration - I cannot understand why this would make you want to quit online poker...it's seeing stories like this that make me want to quit my job and play online full-time - wishing I had the bankroll to move up to $5-$10 games... Yes - you lost a terrible hand to a horrible player...why he played the way he did is in comprehensible...according to my bad early in the morning calculations - I think he's about a 55-1 dog to beat you post flop...but it was one hand...play the other 55 hands against this guy and you can retire next year... If you want to give it up - fine...but email me his screen name so I can play him...I'll take the occasional bad hit to make it up in the long run... | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), thatpfunk, 31. Dec 2003 23:13 | ||
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| giving up sarcastically, dont worry im still playing... | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), duquedelsol, 1. Jan 2004 09:03 | ||
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| <<giving up sarcastically, dont worry im still playing... >> Glad to hear it...I was more making a comment about people in general making such comments...as I said - to me - horrible beats are a GOOD sign... Not five minutes ago I had a guy betting into my trips with a backdoor straight draw...I give him some credit - his betting into me DID confuse me - but I RAISED pre-flop so he had to know I had something (I probably should have reraised the turn)...of course - he hit his 55-1 one shot and I am out $25... But I REALLY want to play this guy again...soon ;-) | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), timmer, 1. Jan 2004 09:47 | ||
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| Yeah I played with a guy and sucked out with a A low river straight starting with a 2x4 when my cat danced across the keyboard. the funner thing though was when this guy, a normally fairly good player went bezerko and tilted off 500 in about 40 somthing min. you should of seen it . it was hilarious. perhaps I should cap with 2 & 4 more often. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), PairTheBoard, 1. Jan 2004 10:22 | ||
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| gee, I guess they should make BLUFFING illegal in Online poler. Just for you. He figured there was no way you were playing a Jack with your pre-flop action so he RAW BLUFFED on the flop. He picked up an inside straight draw on the turn and figured you couldn't handle the heat of a turn raise so he SEMI-SEMI-BLUFFED the turn. The beauty of a play like that is sometimes you get there on the river, which he did. You should definitely give up Poker. The game is too rough for your tender sensibilities. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), duquedelsol, 1. Jan 2004 10:48 | ||
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| <<gee, I guess they should make BLUFFING illegal in Online poler. Just for you...>> Gotta back thatpfunk on this one...if that was what he was trying to do - it was a TERRIBLE bluff - especially after his reraise...even if his opponent thought it was bluff vs bluff - did he think REALLY THINK he could win the hand at that point w/AJJ42 and only backdoor draws...iot was pretty obvious this thatp was going to a showdown... I WILL quit my job and play against bluffers like that all day long... | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), PairTheBoard, 1. Jan 2004 11:09 | ||
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| gotta disagree with duquedelsol here. If your NEVER make a bluff like that then you are not bluffing enough. The mistake this bluffer made was doing it against someone who was incapable of folding a pair of Aces. There are players here who would have folded with those Aces against that kind of pressure and with 2 Jacks on board. In fact, if you NEVER lay down AK in that situation then there are advice givers here who will tell you you are paying off too much. You have to take these kind of possible plays into consideration when you make your decisions. They all go into the estimation of the probabilties. Many times you are guessing. Of course it HURTS ] when you guess right and still lose due to someone getting there on a flop bluff and turn semi-bluff. But that's poker. If you can't deal with it get out of the game. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), jaustin, 1. Jan 2004 11:40 | ||
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| I don't see any way you he should have layed down his AK. The pot was too big and the other player could have been bluffing or holding a hand like AQ or AK for the split. Perhaps after the flop was capped he might have slowed down, but IMHO with a pot already this big you shouldn't be folding unless you know your opponent is incappable of a bluff. Also, if he was bluffing I agree with duq that it was a terrible bluff. When your opponent shows strength pre-flop and on the flop, there is almost no chance he'll lay down his hand on the turn or river. I would love to play against someone who would try a bluff in that situation. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), PairTheBoard, 1. Jan 2004 12:26 | ||
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| Of course you and dug are right. But thatpfunk's post shows a lack of experience. You will see plays like this. You will see plays even more bizzare than this. There is always a chance a good player has suddenly become unstable. thatpfunk KNEW he was in trouble if someone had a jack. He did not want to see that kind of pressure. He had to suck up his balls to make the call. He never imagined someone could be making such a bizzare play. Usually what would happen is he would win the pot and be PROUD of the courage he showed in playing tough. Would he have come here and told us about THAT? I doubt it.. Instead when he learns yet one more lesson in the complexities of poker he come here and WHINES about it. It was a cheap lesson my friend. Quit whining and play. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), palman, 1. Jan 2004 13:50 | ||
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| if you think he's bluffing and he's a maniac... why not just check-call to the river. If this player is going to see a showdown no matter what, and he's on some kind of draw, AND on top of that you're still guessing that he doesnt have the J, just call the maniac down. I believe that was the advice caro gives on cardplayer. If you are raising him on the flop.... in most cases, if he doesnt have it, he'll fold, and you'll lose the extra bluff bets he'll make on the later streets, and if he does have it you'll lose more from his re-raises. Capping here on every street can't possibly be profitable in the long run. Because in that instance he should play every hand because he'll get paid off on his monsters. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), thatpfunk, 1. Jan 2004 14:42 | ||
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| As i stated in my post, I was at the end of a long bad session, frusterated, and if I had lost to the jacks or the flush, fine. I didnt need a lecture about the hand, obviously i could have played it better. I wish he had JJ and thrown them in my face. But to whoever calls this a bluff I wish I could play with you. IT WAS CAPPED WITH FOUR PLAYERS PREFLOP AND THEN THREE BET ON THE FLOP UNTIL EVERYONE ELSE DROPPED OUT. So if 2 4 suited relying on runner runner is your idea of a safe semi bluff then i hope i st down with you next time. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), PairTheBoard, 1. Jan 2004 17:22 | ||
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| If you don't want a lecture on the hand then you've come to the wrong place pal because that is almost certainly exactly what you're going to get here. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), Brian462, 1. Jan 2004 18:06 | ||
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| The guy is not there to play good poker, he's there to be a maniac. That's why he is playing. If he was playing for money he wouldn't play like that. Do you really think this guy stopped to logically create a plan on bluffing this pot? He doesn't care whether or not it was a safe semi-bluff. If you try to reason out why someone makes a play like that then you are wasting your time. All you have to know is that this guy is there to be a maniac, nothing more. He probably told a dozen of his friends about that hand and laughed the whole time and he'll probably play like that for another 2 weeks beforing getting that lucky again. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), Chris W, 1. Jan 2004 14:51 | ||
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| > gotta disagree with duquedelsol here. If your NEVER make a bluff like > that then you are not bluffing enough. Please tell me you're joking. Seriously. It goes to four bets pre-flop And four bets on the flop and you think it's a good time to continue bluffing on the turn?! If you EVER try to bluff in this situation in a low limit game you need your head examined. > The mistake this bluffer made was doing it against someone who was > incapable of folding a pair of Aces. No the mistake his opponent made was trying to bluff at a huge pot where his opponent could easily hold a monster hand. While it happened to be true that he only had 2 pair the bluffer has no reason to believe this is the case. The action makes it look like he could have AA or JJ. If you're going to berate a guy for whining in the section designed for whining you should at least post something that isn't completely idiotic while doing so . | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), PairTheBoard, 1. Jan 2004 15:13 | ||
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| You're right Chris. This forum is designed to coddle little babies who discover poker is a tougher game than they thought it was going to be. "What? You mean I have to deal with that? In that case I'm quiting." Whatever. Of course there's no legitimate reason for the bluffer to be in a pot like that. But suppose for some reason you were in such a pot. Maybe you got whipsawed preflop in the blind. Suppose further that you know the button would never cap such a pre-flop with a Jack other than maybe JJ which you think is unlikely. Suppose further you have great credibility with the button and you know he knows you would NEVER bet at this flop without a jack. Suppose further that you have seen this button be hard to convince at times but will often lay down against a turn raise. Would you NEVER bluff in that situation? Furthermore, if you were the button would you NEVER lay down in that situation. Are you telling me that I should NEVER fold top top even when the board is paired under me and I'm getting HUGE pressure from someone who RARELY BLUFFS? Well ok. Let's see how you respond to some of the threads where every "pro" says, "I would have layed THAT down." Is this a low probabilty situation? Yes. Should you take into consideration all the possible low probabilty situations when you make your decisions? Yes. Should you come here and whine about it when you guess right but Lady Luck does you wrong? If you want to sure. It's an interesting situation and one worth remembering. But when you whine, expect to be called a whiner. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), hokie95, 1. Jan 2004 18:46 | ||
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| Ummmm.......dude? Uhhhhhh....you....ummmmmm.....how do I say this............................................................. Uh, I guess I should just come out and say it: You're being a jerk. This is the Bad Beats forum. The official description of this section is: "Tell the world about the terrible things that happened to you at poker. You'll feel better and we won't all have to read about it." So, yeah. He's whining. THAT'S THE POINT OF THIS SECTION. LEAVE HIM ALONE FOR CHRISSAKES. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), PairTheBoard, 1. Jan 2004 19:08 | ||
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| They actually created a WHINNINING FORUM? I never noticed. I'll have to pay closer attention from now on. Nevermind. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), Flakes, 1. Jan 2004 20:23 | ||
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| I agree that this was definitely a bad beat! Period. I don't agree that the poster played his hand very well, though. When a known calling station raises you and then checkraises you on the turn, that IMO is something that you shouldn't just disregard just because "You don't want to put him on Jack anything." So just because you actually had him slaughtered in this hand, does not mean that you played it well, or took into enough consideration that maybe, just maybe, you overplayed your hand just a bit against this calling station. The outcome is hindsight. I know the poster was tired at this point in the game, and that can effect the way you think about things, too - don't think that it's not so; and I also think that some of the points that Pair The Board has brought up have merit. Whether or not the poster wants to actually try to listen to some advice, opinions, etc., is a different story. People who take bad beats usually don't want to hear any of that stuff, so they tune everything else out because all they really want to to right now, at this moment, is to whine, bitch, moan, and complain. And that's ok, because that is what the "bad beats" section is for!!! If you ever want to discuss the hand a little later on, then you can post it in the strategy and psychology section. In my opinion, even bad beats can be analyzed constructively and they can even open the minds of the player who was on the receiving end of them. Just how I see it. Flakes | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), SmallFeesh, 1. Jan 2004 20:57 | ||
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| jeez! this one created alot of flame! well.... the guy obviously was tired... and really didnt give a crap what the fish had... he had decided that he was going to raise and re-raise this guy regardless.... it's called tilt... that's what happen's... just something that needs to be controlled... but i dont believe the guy wanted to be told how he played it wrong.... he even basically said in his original post that he knew he played it wrong... it was way to costly.. but should he have laid it down?? mabey not! i'ts online... you have no clue who is on the other end of the mouse! mabey the guy was stone cold drunk... mabey he was high as a kite and thought he was playing play money! mabey he went to the kitchen to get a drink and his 5 year old son decided he would play some poker! mabey he was getting one hell of a BJ! online you cant go throwing hands like that away... raising and re-raising... probablly not... checking and calling yea... the maniac could not expect that to be a good time to bluff when there was that much raising preflop... good cards came... not 2-3-10 rainbow. instead of beratting the guy to itsy bitsy tiny peices on his bad play.. congradulate him on his great read! and sympathize with his bad beat! and just hope to see him at your table when the same situation comes up but you do have AA or JJ and he decides to go bezerk! lol.... j/k! now lets just play nice and be happy folk! holiday fruit cake anyone???? | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), Flakes, 1. Jan 2004 21:13 | ||
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| Wait a minute here. You're telling me that I'm "berating the poster" because I told him that I didn't think he played his hand very well? My reply was not a "flame" reply either; and I don't think that's fair of you to say that. I did not berate him, but I stated in my post that sometimes players who take bad beats really don't want advice but if he ever wanted to discuss the hand, he could post it in another section. And yes, I also said that most people who take bad beats like to moan and complain, yet I don't think I am too far off on that either. But if that's what you call "berating", then so be it. And I stand on what I said about Pair The Board's replies, at least he was trying to have a discussion on the hand. Now, If people want symapthy and only sympathy, then there won't be anything productive that comes from that, and probably not much will be learned either. And because of that, I regret for even looking at this section, because I try to look at everything objectively, openly, and as honestly as I can when I play poker, yes, even the bad beats....and that really isn't what this section is for. So you're right on that account. What was I thinking. *Sigh.* PS. I don't much care for fruitcake but a nice hot slice of apple pie will do! Happy new year to ya. Flakes | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), PairTheBoard, 1. Jan 2004 22:09 | ||
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| I don't care for fruit cake either but I could probably use one of those BJ's. Believe it or not I really was not aware that I was in the Bad Beats Forum. I'm so used to clicking on posts that take me to the regular forum that I forgot all about this one. The point I was trying to make is that it is the possibilty of these off the wall plays coming at you from out of nowhere that can make poker so difficult sometimes. You have to factor them all into your decisions. When one like this pops up and bites you it is temporarily painful. But it also adds to your storehouse of experience. Like they say, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), Chris W, 1. Jan 2004 19:10 | ||
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| >You're right Chris. This forum is designed to coddle little babies who discover poker is >a tougher game than they thought it was going to be. Where did he post this hand? Strategy and psychology? Getting started? No he posted it in BAD BEATS. The whole point of that section is so that people can whine about their misfortune without it taking up space on the rest of the board. So good job criticizing him for using the board as it was intended to be used. If you don't want to read posts like his then stick to the serious sections of the board. I suppose you go to strip clubs and complain about all the naked girls too? OK now you go on to invent a scenario that has absolutely nothing to do with the hand he posted. So clearly you realize that you were way off by arguing that he was making a good bluff. But let's look at the situation you propose just for fun. >Of course there's no legitimate reason for the bluffer to be in a pot like that. But suppose >for some reason you were in such a pot. Maybe you got whipsawed preflop in the blind. >Suppose further that you know the button would never cap such a pre-flop with a Jack > other than maybe JJ which you think is unlikely. Why do you think JJ is not likely? Again you've completely ignored pocket aces in your analysis. AA is the hand that you're most likely to be looking at when someone caps it before the flop. >Suppose further you have great credibility with the button and you know he knows you >would NEVER bet at this flop without a jack. this statement is where your argument really breaks down. If you actually thought that and he raised you on the flop then he must be able to beat a Jack. He knows that you would never bluff on this flop and he's raising you. How can you possibly continue to bluff here? >Suppose further that you have seen this button be hard to convince at times but will >often lay down against a turn raise. Would you NEVER bluff in that situation? given your previous statement I would never bluff in this situation. You're not looking at all the information you have available to you. If the button bets on the turn after being checked to he's telling you either that he can beat trip jacks or that he's willing to pay you off if you do have 3 of a kind. He had the option to check and go to a showdown for at most one bet and he didn't take that option. When the guy that is bluffing check-raises and gets re-raised there's no way he's going to lay it down at this point. >Furthermore, if you were the button would you NEVER lay down in that situation. Are >you telling me that I should NEVER fold top top even when the board is paired under >me and I'm getting HUGE pressure from someone who RARELY BLUFFS? Well ok. >Let's see how you respond to some of the threads where every "pro" says, "I would >have layed THAT down." This is superfluous because I'm never going to bet on the turn in this situation. If for some reason I decided to bet I would have to be confident that I had the best hand so clearly I could not lay it down. I think your problem is that you're not looking at that hand as a whole. Putting all the information together is the only way you can make good decisions in a poker game. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), PairTheBoard, 1. Jan 2004 19:19 | ||
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| Well Chris, when you're right you're right. And you're right. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), palman, 1. Jan 2004 21:20 | ||
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| although at the same time in all this "strategy" talk... he knew the guy was a maniac, apparantly called it correctly seeing as how he had 24s, so maybe he just knew the player and it wasn't that bad of a play after all | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), SmallFeesh, 2. Jan 2004 09:56 | ||
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| Wait a minute Flakes! I apologize! I meant my reply to appear at the end of the other reply's... not as a reply to your reply! I just mean that this post has alot of comments on it... and I was more referring to the other posters who were tearing the poor tired guy on tilt into pieces! Your reply was far nicer than the rest... simply stating very true facts without making the guy look like a total fish... please except my apologies! And unfortunately I have no pie... unless of course you would like some nice clean hair pie... that is readily available in.... Pahrump! | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), PairTheBoard, 2. Jan 2004 11:41 | ||
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| so maybe it wasn't such an "Absurd Beat" and even though he''s posting it in the Bad Beats Forum, to cry so much over it with his "Quiting Online Poker" heading, like it's the fault on "Online" play and things like this should just NEVER happen to Him for some reason, might have had something to do with some of the inflamed replies. | ||
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| Re: Absurd Beat... No more online poker for me (long), ScanX, 5. Jan 2004 05:23 | ||
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| bluff ? with 42s ? lol even if he was bluffing/out of his mind, I would never fold with such a hand in limit games...check call is the least I would do. | ||
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