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Server Time: 10/11/2008 6:03:32 AM PACIFIC |
 beating bad players, Joel, 30. Dec 2003 16:05 | ||
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| alot is written about starting standards, but not in relation to poor players who will not fold to a raise preflop. Are there any schools of thought concerning never raising preflop if you know you will not thin the field with AA for example? It seems that if you get 7-8 callers either way, the odds of AA winning are marginal without help on the flop. Any good sources on Low Limit and/or playing against clueless calling stations besides Lee Jones book? | ||
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| Re: beating bad players, Styx, 30. Dec 2003 16:28 | ||
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| I think the main thing to remember is that high stakes tactics do not work in low limit games. Raising pre-flop is usually to thin the field or to get more money into the pot (b/c you believe that you will probably be the winner). However in low limit games the field is usually large because fewer players fold, so there is no need to raise to get money in the pot. And your raise in a low limit game will probably not thin the field, more times than not a pre flop raise in a low limit game (assuming it is fairly loose) will induce more betting making it more expensive to play hands that seem great (monsters with fewer opponents i.e. pocket pairs). To get to the point with a hand like AA which can easily be beat by something like two pair it's best not to overinvest preflop in lowlimit. I am not a great player and I hope what I said helps, also if anyone has any comment on what I wrote I would appreciate the feedback | ||
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| Re: beating bad players, blisterfoot, 30. Dec 2003 19:37 | ||
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| I'm a beginner too, but I disagree with you guys completely. Play AA fast preflop--if loose players want to call with far inferior hands, that's terrific! Truthfully, I've never heard of a game so loose you can't force some players out with aggressive pre-flop raising and check-raising, but even if every one of your opponents in a full ring game wants to call you all the way to the river, you will still win about 1/3 of the time, and the payoff when you win will FAR outweigh your losses when you lose. If you can make smart laydowns on the turn and river when it's clear you don't have the best hand, AA will be even more profitable. If you are playing in a game with astute opponents, you might want to OCCASSIONALLY play AA slow pre-flop for deception. But in the kind of game you're describing, where everyone is going to call your bets anyway, just ram and jam the pot pre-flop. That is BY FAR your most profitable option. Don't worry about getting your Aces cracked--when they hold up, your aggressive play will pay for itself 10x over. My 2 cents | ||
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| Re: beating bad players, bkholdem, 31. Dec 2003 04:33 | ||
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| I mix up my play pre flop, I usually raise with high pairs and not with mid and low pairs. Getting in re-raises is great though, especially when players with garbage are trapped in between the original raiser and you. I sometimes raise with AK, sometimes I don't. Anything can happen on one particualar hand but over an entire session it's very easy to win the low limit game by just tight pre flop play (except at foxwoods play loose there ;) ). In the low limit games the strait and flush draws are a big threat, you have to have a good piece of these boards or your big cards don't mean anything, folding them is usually the right move IMO. | ||
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| Re: beating bad players, Schuster, 28. Jan 2004 10:03 | ||
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| Your AA will still hold up about a third of the time, and you're getting a huge return on your money. You're giving up a lot if you don't raise it up in these types of games. Just because you are not a favorite to win a pot, you may be a big "money favorite" which means that your odds of winning compared to odds you're getting from everyone else putting money in the pot are very favorable. Lee | ||
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| Re: beating bad players, Joel, 28. Jan 2004 10:24 | ||
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| So based on what you are saying, it appears one would need a larger bank roll to play these games and survive the swings? should thses games be avoided without a larger bankroll? | ||
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| Re: beating bad players, Schuster, 28. Jan 2004 13:06 | ||
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| I wouldn't say that. Say you sit down in a really tough game. Players are raising in a tactically correct manner, playing good cards, and no one is really taking too much the worst of it. In a game like this, even if you are beating it, there will be a lot of swings because you will make much less in expectation on your good hands. Contrast this with the loose game where lots of people chase you the whole way. Yes, you will win less pots, but you will be very much in control of how much money you put into each pot, and you will generally have a good idea where you stand in each hand. You still need an adequate bankroll for any game, but if you only played loose passive type games and knew what you were doing, I'd suspect that you could get by on a 200 BB bankroll, but that's really just an educated guess, not a mathematically proven fact. Lee | ||
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