|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 9/5/2008 5:02:04 PM PACIFIC |
 Did I make a bad play?, ILLZ, 30. Dec 2003 10:24 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| This is a hand that played out at my home game tournament between myself and some other local players. I've been back and forth for the last two days as to whether or not it was a bad play: In our home tourney all players (usually about 8-14) start out with $100 in chips, with the blinds starting at 1-2. They double every half hour. It was still rather early on, but the blinds were up to 5-10 and I was short stacked ($45 in chips). I was dealt QQ in first position with 4 players, including both blinds, left to act. I thought to myself "if I move all-in I may not get any callers, and this is probably the best hand I'm going to get out of the next 10 or so, before I get blinded out, I DON'T want to just take $15 in blinds here, I want to gamble". Now, recently I've been applying a new strategy when it comes to moving all my chips in on one hand. If I know it's the best hand I'll see before I'm out, and I plan on moving all-in, then I'll just make a raise pre-flop to suck some callers in, and then move all-in for a little more after the flop, regardless of what it is. I only do this with Queens or better. Back to the hand... I doubled the blinds with my QQ and got 2 callers, including the BB. The flop couldn't have come any worse - A-K-4 of mixed suites. At this point I had $25 left and had already committed almost half my chips to the pot pre-flop. I moved all in with my QQ regardless of the board, just simply because I was already committed. Sure enough, both players called, flipping up AJs, and A5s and I was out. Now, if I went all-in preflop I probably would've gotten a call from the AJs and lost anyhow, so the end result would've been the same. But was it a bad play to move all-in with that board staring me in the face? Keep in mind I would've had $25 in chips left with BB and SB in store for me the next 2 hands. What do you guys think? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, Highflyin3484k, 30. Dec 2003 11:18 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| to me I really dont see how this can be anything except an automatic all-in.. you only have 4.5 BB's, In all respect I dont think now is the time to be cute and sucker people in with marginal hands. Get your money in there, hope for a caller or two, just dont give them virtually a free-flop. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, ILLZ, 30. Dec 2003 11:44 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| well I agree, but I didn't want to only win 15 in blinds with QQ, that would've paid my blinds for the next round and then I'm right back where I started... | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, Highflyin3484k, 30. Dec 2003 11:48 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I do understand that, but coming from EP, you will very likely get a call, and if not you've managed to pick up your set of blinds for next round so you can sit back and wait for premium hands. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, ILLZ, 30. Dec 2003 12:01 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Yes, I see what you're saying. The short stack slow play pre-flop worked like a charm for me in a B&M NL tourney at the local casino last weekend and helped me get to the final table. I suppose I was still hung up on the play! Thank you for your perspective. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, Mark, 30. Dec 2003 11:49 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Exactly, You don't have enough chips to get cute ( you can't stand to lose 1 hand). Also, when the flop came down AKx, you should have check folded. You had to know you were beat in this situation. Unless your opponents were very passive and had small stacks, you should have folded and hoped for another chance. Wouldn't you have rathered to win only $15 instead of going broke? Mark | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, ILLZ, 30. Dec 2003 12:19 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| If I check-folded after the flop, I would've been left with enough for approx. 2 hands, and with half my money already in the pot, I figured I'd take a chance and hope they either both called with a small-mid pocket pair, or maybe I could pick up a miracle queen. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, Blazman, 30. Dec 2003 12:31 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| The way I see it you have 2 choices. You can either ask for advise and learn, or ask for advise and when you dont get the answer that you are looking for defend your position and justify your play. Bottom line is you made the wrong play preflop and the wrong play after that flop, if you think you made the right play then keep doing it and stop asking for advise. -Blaz on 30. Dec 2003 12:19 ILLZ wrote: > If I check-folded after the flop, I would've been left with enough for approx. 2 hands, and > with half my money already in the pot, I figured I'd take a chance and hope they either both > called with a small-mid pocket pair, or maybe I could pick up a miracle queen. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, ILLZ, 30. Dec 2003 12:59 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| whoa whoa, I'm not sitting here trying to defend my play because I know it was sub-par. If I thought it was the right play would I be posting about it now? No, of course not. I know it wasn't the best, but I'm just simply trying have a discussion regarding it, that's all. Relax. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, DoublDown, 30. Dec 2003 12:32 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| FIrst off, You should have probably moved ALL IN pre-flop IMO. If the AJ called, than you put your chips in on the best hand possible anyway, so you wouldnt be able to complain, even though you would have lost. Secondly, if you decided to play the way you did in only raising pre-flop, and having the two callers, and seeing that terrible flop, than what I would done is just checked. Most likely your opponents would bet out and than I would fold and wait for another decent hand. Its understandable that the blinds are 2 hands away, but who knows maybe you'll hit an AXs on those blinds, than moving ALL IN. At least you'd have a better shot and most likely more callers considering you're on the blind, maybe winning more than expected. That would be my play. Its gutsy but with that disgusting flop, and having those 2 callers, to me one of them had to have the K or A already giving them a made hand over yours. -DD | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, ILLZ, 30. Dec 2003 13:01 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Yea, I agree, that seems to be the consensus, thank you for your input! | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, Highflyin3484k, 30. Dec 2003 13:06 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I ran QQ vs. AJs vs. A5s You were a 63% fav. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, LJH, 30. Dec 2003 14:43 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| DEAR HIGH, IN THIS CASE, IT WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR HIM TO GO ALL IN ON.LJH | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, Highflyin3484k, 30. Dec 2003 14:47 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| RIght, I was not refering to after the flop... I was just running the odds pre-flop of the three hands he mentioned.... | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, Blazman, 30. Dec 2003 11:46 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| From my experience it is never OK to slow play a high pocket pair. If you hold QQ you have to think that any caller is going to at least have an overcard. Pushing all in after that flop is definetly the wrong move especially if you are short stacked. I would have gone all in pre-flop or at least 4-5 times the BB. If you take the blinds then you can survive another ring around the table to catch another hand. You need to just be OK with the fact that you are not going to win a lot of money with a high pocket pair. If A-J suited wants to call and we see the flop then I have to fold, he took a chance on a drawing hand and deserves the pot if he wins it. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, ILLZ, 30. Dec 2003 12:24 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I forgot to add that we had 14 players that night, so we started with 2 tables of 7 apiece, and planned on combining when each table got to 3. At this point there were only 5 players at my table, so another go around the ring equates to 4 hands...not very helpful... | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, LJH, 30. Dec 2003 14:41 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| DEAR ILLZ, IT WAS A TERRIBLE PLAY. WITH 25 IN CHIPS YOU COULD HAVE WAITED FOR A GOOD HAND! LJH | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make a bad play?, iceman5, 30. Dec 2003 15:34 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I definately would have gone all in before the flop. You said you didnt want to just take the $15 in blinds. What you DID was bet double the blinds ($20). You got 2 callers including the BB so the pot was $65. Now what happens is either you go all in and they fold so you win a total of $45 for the hand, or someone calls because you are beat and you are out. The extra $30 you couldve won post flop as compared to preflop is not worth the risk of busting out. Theres no way, I wouldve bet into that flop even though you wouldve been badly shortstacked. You wouldve had a better chance going all in on any later random hand that thinking neither opponent had an ace OR king. By the way, if you DID go all in before the flop. Neither of them should be calling with AJ or A5. You said you wouldve lost anyway, but you dont know because you dont know if they wouldve called or not. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network |
|