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Server Time: 8/28/2008 4:57:27 PM PACIFIC |
 Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Stace, 30. Dec 2003 09:43 | ||
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| Hey all, I was talking to some friends who are high rollers and respected patrons of Vegas. We got to talking about Chris Moneymaker, and my friend said he was surprised that Moneymaker made it out of town alive after he won the tournament. When I asked why, he said that the word on the street was Moneymaker didn't tip a single person after the tournie ended. Not one dealer, not even the maid in his room. I thought that sounded kind of hard to believe, after having won 2.5 million, but my friend was adamant. I was wondering if anyone else had heard something of this nature? I hope it's incorrect. Thanks. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Palinya, 30. Dec 2003 09:59 | ||
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| I was talking to a dealer that said he was in playing the lowest limit stud game they had to offer... you'd think with a bankroll like he should have that game wouldn't offer him much | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, noiseboy, 30. Dec 2003 15:20 | ||
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| Considering he's probably not a stud player, at least I've never heard of him playing this game before, it's probably pretty smart of him to stick to the lower limits. I play mostly NL Hold'em and some 6/12 and 15/30 limit Holdem, but I don't play higher than 4/8 when I play stud. on 30. Dec 2003 09:59 Palinya wrote: > I was talking to a dealer that said he was in playing the lowest limit stud game they > had to offer... you'd think with a bankroll like he should have that game wouldn't > offer him much | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Big_Slick, 30. Dec 2003 10:09 | ||
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| My understanding is that tipping is mandatory. I don't know the minimum percentage off the top of my head. Can any one clarify? For some reason 3% comes to mind. Why are so many people player-hating Moneymaker? Why can't people just be happy for someone? He's brought a lot of new players into the world of poker and the better players that feast off these newbies should be grateful. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Boftx, 30. Dec 2003 10:14 | ||
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| It's not a matter of hating him. Instead, I would suspect it's more a case that most posters here feel that Moneymaker would probably have a had time winning a UPF tourney consistantly. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Stevolley2, 30. Dec 2003 10:41 | ||
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| All of the winnnings were not his. He made a deal with family members who bought part of him. He also could very well have not been aware of tipping most people. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Blade, 30. Dec 2003 11:03 | ||
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| People get a life. He doesn't reflect on you and unless you were one who may or may not have been tipped it doesn't effect you does it. All you are doing is furthering a rumor of which you have no idea as to its accuracy. As far as his skill level. He won the freaking world series of poker. Unless you have I don't see where anyone here gets off criticizing him, regardless of how they have faired in a UPF tourney. I have heard countless Pro's and past WS winners say time and time again "poker is a skill game" , "In order to be considered one of the greats you have to win a WSOP." Well guess what he won. Did he get lucky at the right times, yes he did. But I also saw him pull a great Bluff against Farah that basically won the eventt. Am I suppossed to beleive that just because the likes of Hellmuth, Chan & Brunson were pro's going into the event they won their's entirely on skill and didn't get lucky! WTF ever. As for what level of stud he decides to play. Again get a life. -May the bridges I burn light my way -Blade | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Highflyin3484k, 30. Dec 2003 11:42 | ||
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| My third cousins aunt's mothers brother on my dad's side had a friend that knew a guy once that told him the same thing | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Risky Business, 30. Dec 2003 12:07 | ||
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| Is that the same person that saw Ferris at 31 Flavors last night? on 30. Dec 2003 11:42 Highflyin3484k wrote: > My third cousins aunt's mothers brother on my dad's side had a friend that knew a guy once > that told him the same thing | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, KJo, 31. Dec 2003 11:26 | ||
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| yep. he passed out, I guess it's pretty serious. Eli on 30. Dec 2003 12:07 Risky Business wrote: > Is that the same person that saw Ferris at 31 Flavors last night? > > > on 30. Dec 2003 11:42 Highflyin3484k wrote: > > My third cousins aunt's mothers brother on my dad's side had a friend that knew a guy once > > > that told him the same thing | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Highflyin3484k, 30. Dec 2003 11:44 | ||
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| No Joke Bill gates is very well known for playing ultra low limit, he does it for the fun of the game not for profit, as does moneymaker. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Palinya, 30. Dec 2003 12:58 | ||
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| Although I did find it a little surprising that he was playing lowest limit stud, I personally don't care what level of stud he plays. Maybe he was playing low limit stud because he's a hold'em player and not a stud player... I really don't know. You're right though, my post sounded bad. I didn't mean to sound like I was passing any type of judgement on him. I was posting more to say that there are people (including dealers) talking about him. I say good for him! If there are people that don't like him or are talking about him in a negative context then great he must be doing something right or nobody would care. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, noiseboy, 30. Dec 2003 15:22 | ||
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| Sometimes people seem to forget that every single pro was once an amatuer. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, R4, 30. Dec 2003 11:30 | ||
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| Stace - why would anyone care about who Chris Moneymaker tips or doesn't tip? Furthermore, how would you know - your friend of a friend said so - was he/she there in his room when he checked out? Did you check with the toking police? on 30. Dec 2003 09:43 Stace wrote: > Hey all, > > I was talking to some friends who are high rollers and respected patrons of > Vegas. We got to talking about Chris Moneymaker, and my friend said he was > surprised that Moneymaker made it out of town alive after he won the tournament. > When I asked why, he said that the word on the street was Moneymaker didn't tip > a single person after the tournie ended. Not one dealer, not even the maid in > his room. I thought that sounded kind of hard to believe, after having won 2.5 > million, but my friend was adamant. I was wondering if anyone else had heard > something of this nature? I hope it's incorrect. > > Thanks. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Formless, 30. Dec 2003 11:41 | ||
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| Here is the real breakdown of the $2,000,000 (or whatever it was, the actual figure doesn't matter as we shall see) prize money Chris Moneymaker won: -$1,000,000 to the IRS. -$800,000 to Dad for backing him (that's why he was cheering so hard). -$200, to buy a decent pair of shades, for **** sake. That leaves $199,800 to pay of the house and some bills. So the cash is gone. But Moneymaker likes betting sports, and his wife hates it, so it's about 221:1 they get divorced in the next 5 years. Now he's only got maybe 100,000 equity left, theoretically, from his WSOP winnings. So you can see why he may have been a little light in the tipping department. Fortunately for our seemingly destitute champ, he's soundly kicked my *** in the PokerStars $30-$60 game in the few times I've played him this year, which should keep the creditors off his back for a while ;-) Formless on 30. Dec 2003 09:43 Stace wrote: > Hey all, > > I was talking to some friends who are high rollers and respected patrons of > Vegas. We got to talking about Chris Moneymaker, and my friend said he was > surprised that Moneymaker made it out of town alive after he won the tournament. > When I asked why, he said that the word on the street was Moneymaker didn't tip > a single person after the tournie ended. Not one dealer, not even the maid in > his room. I thought that sounded kind of hard to believe, after having won 2.5 > million, but my friend was adamant. I was wondering if anyone else had heard > something of this nature? I hope it's incorrect. > > Thanks. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Risky Business, 30. Dec 2003 12:08 | ||
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| From what I heard, 2 people bought 20% stakes in his winnings, to pay his expenses for his trip. Long time ago, source unknown. on 30. Dec 2003 11:41 Formless wrote: > Here is the real breakdown of the $2,000,000 (or whatever it was, the actual figure > doesn't matter as we shall see) prize money Chris Moneymaker won: > > -$1,000,000 to the IRS. > -$800,000 to Dad for backing him (that's why he was cheering so hard). > -$200, to buy a decent pair of shades, for **** sake. > > That leaves $199,800 to pay of the house and some bills. So the cash is gone. But > Moneymaker likes betting sports, and his wife hates it, so it's about 221:1 they get > divorced in the next 5 years. Now he's only got maybe 100,000 equity left, > theoretically, from his WSOP winnings. So you can see why he may have been a little > light in the tipping department. > > Fortunately for our seemingly destitute champ, he's soundly kicked my *** in the > PokerStars $30-$60 game in the few times I've played him this year, which should keep > the creditors off his back for a while ;-) > > Formless > > > > > > > > on 30. Dec 2003 09:43 Stace wrote: > > Hey all, > > > > I was talking to some friends who are high rollers and respected patrons of > > Vegas. We got to talking about Chris Moneymaker, and my friend said he was > > surprised that Moneymaker made it out of town alive after he won the tournament. > > > When I asked why, he said that the word on the street was Moneymaker didn't tip > > a single person after the tournie ended. Not one dealer, not even the maid in > > his room. I thought that sounded kind of hard to believe, after having won 2.5 > > million, but my friend was adamant. I was wondering if anyone else had heard > > something of this nature? I hope it's incorrect. > > > > Thanks. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, DallasPokerFan, 30. Dec 2003 12:15 | ||
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| If it's true that he won on a $200 sattelite entry to the tourney, it would not make sense that his Dad would back him .. what, did Daddy pay 40% of the $200 sattelite entry? Also, if you win a sattelite, it would make sense that the flight and room would be part of the deal, especially since rooms at the Horseshoe are so inexpensive. It may not be, I don't know for sure. The only thing that makes sense to me is that PokerStars gave him all the stuff for a share of the winnings, but I think Moneymaker would had to have made a bad agreement, since he already won the seat and (maybe) the trip out, which PokerStars had to give out. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, legendaryloser, 1. Jan 2004 10:40 | ||
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| I don't know if anyone's seen this, but its the story of chris moneymaker from gut shot. It said he gave out 1 mil to his dad/friends who helped buy in.... http://www.gutshot.co.uk/Roadtrips/moneymakerstory.html | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, hokie95, 1. Jan 2004 12:49 | ||
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| I read that article you linked to. Sounds like brother needs to lay off the sports gambling. Sounds like trouble when your wife pleads with you and you still drop $20,000 on it after winning some satellites. (Uh...hello, you have bills to pay, $20,000 would have been pretty handy.) | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Angel, 30. Dec 2003 12:48 | ||
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| Ok, here's the real deal . I was there - I was tipped by him. He tipped $50,000. $25,000 of that disappeared between him tipping and it making it into the envelopes to be distributed to all the dealers who had dealt the series. While it's true that both dad and uncle bought shares of him to finance his trip that's not the question - nor was the class he showed during the last two days when he started getting noticed but hey - thought I'd throw that in too. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Jonny-Sax, 30. Dec 2003 16:10 | ||
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| I'm with Blade on this one. The Guy Won the world series !! Plain and Simple. You have to have game, and I mean buckets of it, to even get to the final table. Who he tipped, who he didn't, who backed him, who didn't, it doesn't matter, the guy is now apart of history period! He wont be remebered as the guy who didn;t tip, but the guy who won the WSOP form a online satellite and went all the way to the top. J | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Flatout_Mainiac, 31. Dec 2003 12:29 | ||
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| "He tipped $50,000. $25,000 of that disappeared between him tipping and it making it into the envelopes" Here is the real injustice of it all.... | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, I Dont Tip, 31. Dec 2003 12:38 | ||
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| Guy HAS EVERY RIGHT NOT TO TIP. If I won the WSOP, I WOULDNT TIP A PENNY. I NEVER TIP IN A CASINO, PERIOD. Everyone here is pissed off and jelous that they didnt even come close to winning the WSOP. Have a great day... "I Dont Tip" :o) | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Stace, 31. Dec 2003 14:51 | ||
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| Hey all, As to me trying to tear Moneymaker apart, I really wasn't. I thought that him not tipping sounded incredibly hard to believe. Which is why I asked about it. I think (whether you tip or not) that tipping says something about a person's character, and Moneymaker seemed to be a class act. Having worked in a tipping-based industry myself, I tend to think people who don't tip are cheapskates and unappreciative of good service. Anyway, Angel, you said that he tipped 50,000 but that only 25,000 made it to the envelope. This must be the problem that someone had, and why the rumor was started that he didn't tip at all. Thanks for dispelling the rumor and getting me some clarity on the issue. -Stace | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, I Dont Tip, 31. Dec 2003 17:18 | ||
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| Stace, Im sorry to disagree with you, but this is America. Everyone has there right to tip, or not too. I choose not too, wherever I go... I work hard for my money and have never once gotten a tip in 7 years... Why should I tip a dealer, a waiter, ect... Anyway, I dont appreatate you calling me or moneymaker a cheapskate.... have a nice day... "I Dont Tip" :o) | ||
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| Economic reasons for tipping, duquedelsol, 31. Dec 2003 17:46 | ||
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| <<Why should I tip a dealer, a waiter, ect... >> There is a very simple reason on a large economic level... If people didn't tip - employees who count on those tips for their wage would have to make up that pay elsewhere (meaning ask for a raise or look for anything job)...eventually the costs would be borne by the employer...the employer isn't just going to sit by and eat that money - he is going to have to raise prices to cover the increased labor cost... So if you don't want to pay $15 for your hamburger at TGI Friday's - or worse - a 20% rake at the poker tables - you might want to reconsider this "I don't tip" strategy... If you do choose to not tip - I would strongly suggest getting cards made and placing them on tables at restaurants etc explaining your stance...many people take their jobs personally - and assume that no tip means they did something wrong...if you enjoyed the service - this will allow you to express that and stick to your stance... But it is also unfair to ask people to not call you a cheapskate...I will refrain from doing so - but can you give a non-monetary reason (other than 'I don't get tipped in my job' - quite the lame excuse) for NOT doing so when it is expected and many hard working men and women in the service industry count on it... Full disclosure - yes I did work for tips at one point in my life - but am now a business owner who tries to go out of his way to overtip when necessary... | ||
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| Re: Economic reasons for tipping, Palinya, 31. Dec 2003 22:15 | ||
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| quote... "But it is also unfair to ask people to not call you a cheapskate...I will refrain from doing so " I won't refrain from doing so.... You're a Cheapskate! Certain professions make almost nothing per hour and most of their income is made up from tips. This is simply the way America works. If you use someones services and they are a basically non-paid employee that makes their living from tips then it is completely rude and insulting to cheat them out of their tip. For that short time, they are in a sense working for you. You are their employer and pretty much the only one that is paying them a wage. Pay them! | ||
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| Re: Economic reasons for tipping, Stace, 1. Jan 2004 14:17 | ||
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| duquedelsol, Very nicely put. Every single reason you laid out for tipping, are the very same reasons as mine. I couldn't have explained it better myself. I am also a business owner, but I remember what it was like to work for tips, and when someone stiffed me, I did take it very personally. Sometimes, I think it should be a rule that every American should have to work in the Food Service Industry for at least a month. Then you wouldn't hear anyone running around claiming it's their right to not tip, because they would realize just how important tips are. All the same, to I Don't Tip, if you do claim it's your right to not tip anyone regardless of the level of service you received, then I claim it's my right to say you're a cheapskate who robs hardworking employees of their rightful income. Go to McDonalds next time you're hungry. At least they make minimum wage. Most waiters/waitresses are making under $3.00 an hour. And knowing that, how you could refuse to throw down a buck or two on the table, AND say you're not a cheapskate, is beyond me. But hey, I guess that's your "right." And for the record, I never actually called Moneymaker a cheapskate. I was just asking if what I heard was true, which I didn't think it was. -Stace | ||
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| Re: Economic reasons for tipping, timmer, 1. Jan 2004 20:08 | ||
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| If your silly enough to work at a less than minimum wage job with out the benefit of a union and want to depend on strangers kindness for a living I suggest you get into street corner begging . I hear they do quite a bit better than most non union waitstafff. I tip competent waitstaff personnel between 10% and 15% good wait staff up to 18% bad or surly waitstaff 0-10% . good drink servers get $.5 to $1.0 per round . good to excellent dealers get $1-$2 per down. tip drummers usually get zero except a letter for their employment files and their employers get one less customer. I do this becuase I want to not because you want me to. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, golferbrent, 28. Jan 2004 12:18 | ||
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| I Don't Tip-- You are a cheapskate if you don't tip... and you may be more than that. The average waiter or waitress makes about 2.35/hr. If you don't think that their level of service deserves a tip that is fine... but if they do their job well then you should tip between 10-20%. It's absolutely absurd that you don't tip and can justify it to yourself. Some people utterly amaze me. | ||
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| Re: Who is the cheapskate??, Risky Business, 28. Jan 2004 12:54 | ||
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| I tip. However, it's up to each of us to decide what profession we choose. If you don't like your job because you're susceptible to those that take advantage of the service industry by not tipping, get out of the service industry. What the hell is so hard about that. I don't respect people that don't tip, but I don't cry for service employees that whine about not making bigger tips that most likely don't get fully claimed on their taxes anyway. | ||
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| Re: Who is the cheapskate??, Angel, 28. Jan 2004 13:01 | ||
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| Personally I agree with the, "If you don't like it - don't complain, do something about it" school of thought. Changing professions would certainly be an option for me. On the otehr hand - so many players want top notch dealers but it is clear that the best dealers are very often also good players. Fact is, they do often change professions - to professional poker player which of course lowers the competency level of the overall dealer pool. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, PairTheBoard, 1. Jan 2004 07:55 | ||
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| Thanks for the real lowdown Angel. Maybe I'm dense but I don't understand this missing $25,000 thing. What happenned to it? Anyone who has lived, worked, and played in Las Vegas knows that tipping is a VERY BIG part of the culture there. It is simply a fact of life. It is a VILE accusation in that town to spread the rumor that someone is a STIFF. $50,000 seems more than adequate to me as a tip, especially considering that it is probably not tax deductable. If It comes out of AfterTax winnings it amounted to about $100,000 of the pretax pool. I don't think anyone could ask MM for more than that, especially since he evidently did not own all of himself at the final table. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Angel, 1. Jan 2004 17:42 | ||
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| on 1. Jan 2004 07:55 PairTheBoard wrote: > Thanks for the real lowdown Angel. Maybe I'm dense but I don't understand this missing > $25,000 thing. What happenned to it? That's a real good question. It was mis-appropriated. I have what I consider a pretty good idea who did the mis-appropriation but it's mostly circumstantial and conjecture so I'll decline to elaborate. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Alan Merriam, 2. Jan 2004 10:56 | ||
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| Angel, You are a dealer also? | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, kennycatkiller, 31. Dec 2003 23:10 | ||
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| I believe I read that Binion's cut 3% from the prize pool (or $191,700 if there were 639 entries) for the staff. I assume that included dealers, floor-persons, tournament directors, etc. So, if Moneymaker did or did not tip should be irrelevant. kennycatkiller | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Angel, 1. Jan 2004 01:36 | ||
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| Binions cut 1% for the staff. 0.67% for the dealers. Here's the math: 839 players. $10,000. Total = $8,390,000 0.67% of $8,390,000 is $56, 213. This amount was divided amongst the dealers to a maximum of 3 shares. The best dealers were asked to work more and they recieved more shares to a maximum of 3, the less experienced or poorer quality dealers recieved 1 or 2 shares. Each share was less than $100. The tournament lasted 5 days. Each day was a minimum of 12 hours. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, I Dont Tip, 1. Jan 2004 17:31 | ||
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| Stace I respect the fact that you call me a cheapskate... But when I am playing poker or blackjack it is MY SKILL, or lack there of, that decides if I win of lose. They just deal the cards... When I lose, they NEVER offer to give me a tip, I have never heard or seen of this. So when I win, they expect a tip, THATS A ONE WAY STREET, do you agree?? All i want to hear is that u agree we never get tipped when we get a bad beat....but when i win the dealer expects a tip?!? Anyway, you have the right to say what you want and I respect that... Just remember everyone, this is a free country and we should all be thankful everyday that we live in it, hope you all have a great new year!! Cheers... and remember, "I Dont Tip" :o) | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Cockpit, 1. Jan 2004 20:21 | ||
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| Frugal is using a coupon at a restaurant to save 15% Cheap is stiffing the waiter/waitress in order to save 15% | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, backtoanalog, 2. Jan 2004 10:19 | ||
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| If I may. As far as Moneymaker goes, he lives here in nashville and is an accountant at locally owned restaraunt. I pretty sure he is intimately aware of things like how much the waitstaff is taking home from gratuities and whatnot. Although I've never met the man, I've always heard he's a good guy, for what its worth. I've played at a B&M where he has played and the dealers haven't complained about him. (he is a hot topic of conversation in the card room). to I don't tip...you've gotta be a troll, and a good one at that. If not, let me just say this. I pay the rent with gratuities that mature, good hearted, and classy people give me for my services. As far as me being stupid to get a non-union job that is gratuity based...well, I could just post my SAT and ACT scores here to shut you up but what good would that do? My argument is as follows: I hope you never get into a fight at a bar and expect the bartender to back you up. If you don't tip the bartender, he'll sit back and laugh and watch you get the pulp beat out of you by another drunk. I hope you never go the same restaraunt twice. If you return after stiffing the staff, you will be eating off dirty dishes, you (and your family) will be drinking beverages and eating food with spit or worse in it. (I'm not saying I condone it, but it happens). I hope you never stay at a full service hotel. Don't tip your bellman?...I hope you never have an emergency while you are staying at the hotel. Word about a stiffer travels very fast in a hotel. Front Desk and Concierge staff couldn't care less about any sort of emergency you need help with if you don't have the decency to take care of somebody. Although I've never done it personally, I've seen loud mouth goombahs (which based on your internet persona, it sounds like you are) come into my hotel and bark out orders to a bellman, yadayada, they want their luggage stored and guess what? whoops! The bellman drops your laptop a couple times back in the storage closet. Like I said I've never personally done it, but I've seen it. Same thing with valet. Don't tip your valet driver when you leave your 911 with them? hehehe....trust me, they'll find out what that 911 can do. They'll find out how fast it can brake. They'll find out how high they can take it in first gear. They'll find out how good that e-brake is by driving with it on. Ever been to Vegas? Have you ever wondered why some people always get to stay in the bigger room at the same rate you are paying, even though they called at the last minute? Ever wonder why someone at the restaurant got their food nice and hot before you did, and they sat down after you? Ever wonder how the concierge got sold-out tickets or last minute dinner reservations for someone else but can't do anything for you...Ever wonder why the boxman at the craps table will give calls to one side of the table but not yours, why the floorman in the card room will give calls consistently to other players but not you. It's because they tip, pal. And most people figure this out at about the age of 14. Guess you haven't gotten there yet. Either way, I'm not worried. I'll get your money one way or another. I'll take your ass down at any table, any limit you want to play at. Look me up when you are in Nashville. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Alan Merriam, 2. Jan 2004 11:02 | ||
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| Hey "I don't tip." Whats your real name? I want to make sure that I don't socialize with you at the UPF get together. Have a nice day :) | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Palinya, 2. Jan 2004 11:29 | ||
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| I found this interesting too. He thinks it's okay not to tip but had to make up a new user name to come out and declare that he doesn't. Why not use your regular user name? | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Chikung, 2. Jan 2004 11:44 | ||
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| I hesitate to leap into this thread but... I do tip well and have worked in the service industry. But as I get older and ponder my tipping theory I have started to question it. Why ALWAYS tip 15%+ percent? While I generally tip 18-20+ (and often more), I've caught myself wondering why on earth I tipped the "minimum" 15% for sub par service. The fact that the 15% tip is seen as an entitlement is ludicrous. I still, out of sheer habit and guilt find it hard to tip less than 15% for horrendous service. But I'm forcing myself to rethink that. If someone is going to be a rude, incompetent idiot I'm NOT going to tip AND I'm going to tell them, so it WILL be personal. I think to many incompetent workers play "victim" and shrug off bad tips as the tippers fault. Instead of examining why they got stiffed. Sure, the person may have been a jerk and stiffed you, but..... then again....maybe you are doing a bad job. I even tip on the tax--i.e. the bottom line. But many do not. And that is actually proper, no? Are they cheapskates? What about the waiter who pops a $200 bottle of wine at a table and the bill is now, say $300 Did that waiter do anymore than the one with no wine and a $100 bill? Working at the WSOP as a dealer more than likely is a comment on your skill and performance as a dealer, thus you are already the cream of the crop. So someone wins X and you can "expect Y But you're already one of the wealthier dealers because you've clawed your way to the top of the food chain. (I would then still believe you deserve a damn good tip) But it isn't an entitlement-- that say, if you dealt the lucky Straightflush with a progressive jackpot in a casino, that you DESERVE a cut of untold millions. That is up to the winner. Don't even get me started on those "take a penny/leave a penny" jars that have become entitelment tip jars at Starbucks.... | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, backtoanalog, 2. Jan 2004 12:16 | ||
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| Chikung, Great points. You should take care of someone if they take care of you. If your server doesn't take care of you, you should tip accordingly. On the other hand, if the restaurant is swamped and my server is at least trying hard and apologetic about the wait, I'll cut him/her some slack But if they are like you say incompetent or just have no sense of urgency, I tip the bare minimum or less. In the latter cases, I usually will say something to the manager as I walk out, so the manager and staff know I'm not a jerk and so I can alert them to things they need to work on. I've found that if you are nice and classy in these situation, and don't act like a blowhard, the management will genuinely appreciate it and may even try to reimburse you. (I do this rarely). As far as booze raising the check (and the tip), I hear you. Its a hard pill to swallow, and I don't think there is much we can do about it. I guess in a case like that, I just take solace in the fact that by taking care of them appropriately, maybe next time I come back I will enjoy even more superb service. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Aisthesis, 28. Jan 2004 11:23 | ||
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| I agree fully. While I think restaurant tipping is called for, 15% should in my opinion mean reasonably good service, 10% less good, 0% horrible, and 20% outstanding. Never having played poker at a casino at all, I do have some questions. First, are the dealers earning a reasonable wage prior to tips (wait-staff at restaurants isn't)? Second, what are fairly standard (comparable to the 15% at restaurants) tips for dealers at casinos both for tournaments and for regular ring games? | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Angel, 28. Jan 2004 11:26 | ||
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| Aisthesis, During the 2003 WSOP the normal tournament earn per 30 minute 'down' was about $10-$12. The normal series was 2 downs and then a 30 minute break so, about $20-$24 per hour and a half or about $14.50/hour plus minimum wage (which amounted to taxes owed basically). | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Aisthesis, 28. Jan 2004 11:45 | ||
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| Hmmmmm... how does that translate into a percentage from the player's perspective? If Moneymaker tipped $50k on his winnings, that's 2%, but since the winnings were so enormous, it's still a lot of money to go around. I just ask because one of these days I do think I'll try going to one of the gaming cities for a NLHE tournament (definitely NOT WSOP unless my game takes a shocking turn for the better over the next couple of years). If I were to get in the money, what percent would be appropriate as tip? Is a small tip also expected if you miss getting in the money? | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Angel, 28. Jan 2004 12:09 | ||
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| MoneyMaker did tip $50K - but only $25K made it to the dealers. Usually you can count of the top 3 tipping in most of the events but beyond that - you're lucky. And no - no one tips if they don't make the money with the single exception of Men the Master who's horse won and he came up and tipped me over and above what his horse tipped. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, golferbrent, 28. Jan 2004 12:04 | ||
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| People who cash at the WSOP are required to tip the dealers a portion of their cash-out. The range is 3-8% as I understand it. So I don't believe he got out of town w/o tipping. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Angel, 28. Jan 2004 12:06 | ||
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| They are not required (except for the 1% that comes out of the entry pool - which is whittled down to 0.67% for the dealers). | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, golferbrent, 28. Jan 2004 12:28 | ||
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| Just remember reading from Jim McManus's book that it was.... could of changed policy?? Not sure! | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, Dizmo, 28. Jan 2004 12:58 | ||
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| Wow. This topic sure generated a lot of conversation. I have gone full circle on Moneymaker. I liked him when I saw him win, then I saw the full like 4 hours of the WSOP that they show pretty much every freakin day on ESPN2 and I didn't like him b/c he got soooooo lucky vs. Brenes, and now after reading that story on him, I like him again. Sounds like he needs a little therapy though. On to tipping... I used to feel obligated to tip 15% no matter what kind of service I received. As I have aged, I've gotten sick of crappy service and now I tip accordingly. I come from the philosophy that when you go out to eat, or on vacation, its a special occasion. The people in the service industry should be helping make it special - in a good way - b/c they have vested interest in you b/c you tip them. So, its an easy equation - bad service=bad tip. I'm not a jerk about it, I simply voice what I think. Cripe, if I'm waiting 15 minutes for my waiter to show up and its not busy, or I pay $7 for pasty shrimp cocktail, or have to wait 10 minutes for my beer to show up, I'm thinking that I'm not special. Let me ask some of you folks that have worked or work in restaurants - is it common to stick the "young nice couple" at the crappy table - ie. near the kitchen, smoking section, or door b/c they are less likely to complain? Sometimes I think its just my imagination, but it seems to happen a lot to my wife and me. | ||
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| Re: Moneymaker a cheapskate??, CooSaw, 28. Jan 2004 13:07 | ||
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| Chris did tip just less than 50K, what happened to that cash I don't have a clue. He also threw one Hellva Party afterwards for the Poker Room staff at a local bar that cost him as much or maybe MORE. | ||
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