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Server Time: 1/8/2009 4:17:32 AM PACIFIC |
 early position question, Luvhum, 29. Dec 2003 10:27 | ||
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| I am holding pocket tens in early position. 10-20 game.Maniac raises ahead of me.six relatively loose players behind me. should I raise, call or fold. | ||
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| Re: early position question, R4, 29. Dec 2003 10:43 | ||
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| Fold! If you had better position you could consider raising with only the Maniac in with a raise in front of you. But in early position why get involved? Fold! on 29. Dec 2003 10:27 Luvhum wrote: > I am holding pocket tens in early position. 10-20 game.Maniac raises ahead of > me.six relatively loose players behind me. should I raise, call or fold. | ||
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| Re: early position question, Lou Krieger, 29. Dec 2003 11:11 | ||
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| on 29. Dec 2003 10:27 Luvhum wrote: "I am holding pocket tens in early position. 10-20 game.Maniac raises ahead of me. six relatively loose players behind me. should I raise, call or fold." My inclination would be to raise in hopes of playing heads-up against the maniac. If I can do that, my pair of tens is favored against a maniac's weak raising standards. OTOH, if someone three bets me, then I'm gonna have to hope I flop a set, or else I'm forced to guess whether the guy who reraised did so with a bigger pocket pair, or merely A-K. While being three-bet is never a pleasant position to be in, it's not gonna happen all that often anyway, unless there's another maniac at the table too. Lou Krieger Raise your game with Lou Krieger, author of "Poker For Dummies" and five other books about poker, at Royal Vegas Poker http://www.royalvegaspoker.com/lou | ||
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| Re: early position question, R4, 29. Dec 2003 11:18 | ||
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| Hi Lou - he is in early position with loose players yet to act. How do you figure that his raise will put him heads-up with the maniac? Assuming he gets a call or two and is looking at 3 or maybe even 4-way action from early psoition. Why even get involved? To me here the key is early position and loose players yet to act. > My inclination would be to raise in hopes of playing heads-up against the maniac. > If I can do that, my pair of tens is favored against a maniac's weak raising > standards. OTOH, if someone three bets me, then I'm gonna have to hope I flop a set, > or else I'm forced to guess whether the guy who reraised did so with a bigger pocket > pair, or merely A-K. > > While being three-bet is never a pleasant position to be in, it's not gonna happen > all that often anyway, unless there's another maniac at the table too. > > > Lou Krieger > > Raise your game with Lou Krieger, author of "Poker For Dummies" and five other books > about poker, at Royal Vegas Poker > http://www.royalvegaspoker.com/lou | ||
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| Re: early position question, noiseboy, 29. Dec 2003 11:47 | ||
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| If those players behind are also loose post flop, even if he gets callers, his implied odds go way up if he flops a set. | ||
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| Re: early position question, mfs, 29. Dec 2003 11:37 | ||
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| If this game is so loose that you will get multiple callers even if you reraise then you should just call and hope for a set. If your raise will isolate you with the maniac then this would be the play. I think folding here is too weak. | ||
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| Re: early position question, Risky Business, 29. Dec 2003 14:16 | ||
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| We're assuming the key to this is the players yet to act..... I like the fold because......... 1. You will probably have to call another raise, or possibly even call a capped pot pre-flop (because the maniac is going to hit it again, right?) 2. When the flop comes, you've got 2 cards in the deck that you will be comfortable seeing, and positively 16 that you don't want to see (J,Q,K,A). 3. If the maniac checks the flop that has no 10, you HAVE to bet if you want to guard your pre-flop bets. Yes, check/fold is an option. 4. If the maniac bets a flop with no 10, you have to fold. 5. If a 10 and overcards fall, you still might not be good, considering all the pre-flop action. 6. If 3 undercards fall, you may have run into a small set, considering all the pre-flop action. Summarizing, I don't like 10's in early position, in a multi-way pot, at a loose aggressive table. | ||
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| Re: early position question, Flakes, 29. Dec 2003 14:23 | ||
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| He said the table was loose but he did not say that it was aggressive. So if he just calls the maniac's raise and others behind him just call, he's creating nice volume for his hand if it does flop good. True, often times it will not, but there still is value in calling. If the players behind him were aggressive, then I would fold the hand in a heartbeat. If the game was tight, I would reraise the maniac and try to take the hand heads up. Flakes | ||
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| Re: early position question, Risky Business, 29. Dec 2003 14:26 | ||
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| I hear ya Flakes. I went back and read it again. Call/Fold is what I'd probably end up doing myself, depending on the aggressiveness/strength of the table behind me. on 29. Dec 2003 14:23 Flakes wrote: > He said the table was loose but he did not say that it was aggressive. So if he just calls the maniac's raise and others behind him just call, he's creating nice volume for his hand if it does flop good. True, often times it will not, but there still is value in calling. If the players behind him were aggressive, then I would fold the hand in a heartbeat. If the game was tight, I would reraise the maniac and try to take the hand heads up. > > > Flakes | ||
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| Re: early position question, Snorbolus, 29. Dec 2003 15:47 | ||
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| Risky, Flakes, I agree with you that it all hangs on what you think of the players still to act. A lot of times I think that re-raising right behind the maniac pre-flop might be the way to go. Best case is if you think the others will respect your re-raise and let you see the flop 2 handed with the maniac. But even if you think there is some chance that won't happen you might still want to pop it before the flop if: (1) you don't think the others will 3-bet behind you without the goods and (2) you feel that the maniac can be relied on to lead out again on the flop no matter what. That way you get a second chance to re-raise right after a player who you are likely to be beating and get heads up. If you thought the others were loose enough that they would cold call a re-raise twice in a row, perehaps even play back at you, and you still wouldn't have any idea how likely you were to be ahead then either folding or just calling and hoping to flop a set would be better options. Snorbolus | ||
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| Re: early position question, noiseboy, 29. Dec 2003 11:46 | ||
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| With loose players behind me, it's close between raising and calling. The argument for raising is that if you make a set, you are likely going to win a HUGE pot due to the fact that the people who call three bets are likely to have something to pay you off with. Also if you flop an overpair, it might be good against loose players although you can't get married to it if it comes under fire. You can also just call. There's nothing wrong with that since you will likely get some people cold calling behind you. | ||
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| Re: early position question, Barry T, 31. Dec 2003 13:39 | ||
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| Hi. Call. With all of the loose players, your raise wil not eliminate them, so yu might as well try to get several of them to call. Your position after the flop will allow you to fold if overcards flop, or raise the maniac when he bets, if small cards come. BarryT | ||
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| Re: early position question, Formless, 31. Dec 2003 14:46 | ||
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| I fold, and if you told me I'd make an extra 25 cents on average by calling or raising, I'd still fold. I like fat edges and late position. You are buying a sliver of +EV, if any, for too much risk in my book. I've lost too much money with this sort of hand in this spot. I'd certainly fold 99 here, but probably reraise with JJ, so for me this is a borderline hand. on 29. Dec 2003 10:27 Luvhum wrote: > I am holding pocket tens in early position. 10-20 game.Maniac raises ahead of > me.six relatively loose players behind me. should I raise, call or fold. | ||
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