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Server Time: 12/1/2008 9:00:07 PM PACIFIC |
 dealing with maniacs, excession, 28. Dec 2003 15:12 | ||
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| ok so I started playing a couple of weeks ago online..i'm waiting for some books in the post but in the meantime read up on odds and stuff and am getting some cheap practice in I play at paradise, party poker, william hills (UK) and poker stars I play the $5 tournies mixed NL and limit (except at WH I play £10 limit too) I do very well at WH and Pokerstars (placed in over 80% of the last 10 tournies) - you do get the occasional maniac on these sites but they tend to get isolated and busted out pretty easily.. However at paradise and esp. party poker I just can't get a place for love nor money - the betting from all sides is so maniacal that it's just like shooting craps - you can't tell when you should respect betting and re-raising as they just bet on any starter hand and then even the lowest pair on the flop all the way to the river - i try playing tight but the premium hands still get outdrawn by crap when there is half the table in the pot, or in NL you luck out against some all-in maniac who catches a river...that or you end up folding to utter drivel coz you can't believe they went all in with 10 9 o/s etc.. the edge I look for in tournies is the ability to limp in to cheap flops and read the signals when to get out and when to be aggressive- but with so much noise to signal on these most popular sites I'm just floundering about It's not that I'm losing money overall (I'm about $80 up across all 4 sites) - it's just that if I want to use poker tracker to its fullest extent I'd like to crack these sites - it's also frustrating to see such truly dreadful play beat me ! :( what is the secret - how should you deal with tables with 6-8 maniacs on em? it's tempting to loosen up - knowing they see raises with any card above a ten and go all in with any ace tempts me to play any ace for example (usually I wouldn't look at any unsuited A with less than a 10 kicker unless it was a limp in vs blinds only on the button) or do you keep it tight but make more calls once you're in - normally i'd take a bet on the flop as a signal to fold the middle pair straight away- here if I've a good kicker should I call on? and should I avoid NL at all costs? any advice gratefully received .. thanx | ||
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| Re: dealing with maniacs, Roy Cooke, 28. Dec 2003 15:42 | ||
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| Roy Cooke wrote a great article on this subject :-)....Go to WWW.CardPlayer.com and look him up under writers! Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 28. Dec 2003 15:12 excession wrote: > ok so I started playing a couple of weeks ago online..i'm waiting for some books > in the post but in the meantime read up on odds and stuff and am getting some > cheap practice in > > I play at paradise, party poker, william hills (UK) and poker stars > I play the $5 tournies mixed NL and limit (except at WH I play £10 limit too) > > I do very well at WH and Pokerstars (placed in over 80% of the last 10 > tournies) - you do get the occasional maniac on these sites but they tend to get > isolated and busted out pretty easily.. > > However at paradise and esp. party poker I just can't get a place for love nor > money - the betting from all sides is so maniacal that it's just like shooting > craps - you can't tell when you should respect betting and re-raising as they > just bet on any starter hand and then even the lowest pair on the flop all the > way to the river - i try playing tight but the premium hands still get outdrawn > by crap when there is half the table in the pot, or in NL you luck out against > some all-in maniac who catches a river...that or you end up folding to utter > drivel coz you can't believe they went all in with 10 9 o/s etc.. > > > the edge I look for in tournies is the ability to limp in to cheap flops and > read the signals when to get out and when to be aggressive- but with so much > noise to signal on these most popular sites I'm just floundering about > > It's not that I'm losing money overall (I'm about $80 up across all 4 sites) - > it's just that if I want to use poker tracker to its fullest extent I'd like to > crack these sites - it's also frustrating to see such truly dreadful play beat > me ! :( > > what is the secret - how should you deal with tables with 6-8 maniacs on em? > it's tempting to loosen up - knowing they see raises with any card above a ten > and go all in with any ace tempts me to play any ace for example (usually I > wouldn't look at any unsuited A with less than a 10 kicker unless it was a limp > in vs blinds only on the button) > > or do you keep it tight but make more calls once you're in - normally i'd take > a bet on the flop as a signal to fold the middle pair straight away- here if > I've a good kicker should I call on? and should I avoid NL at all costs? > > any advice gratefully received .. thanx > > > | ||
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| Re: dealing with maniacs, Highflyin3484k, 28. Dec 2003 15:52 | ||
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| lol | ||
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| Re: dealing with maniacs, excession, 28. Dec 2003 16:10 | ||
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| roy - thanx for this - nice site and I like your articles btw - but the 'adjusting to maniacs' one is about one maniac sitting down at your table - the main problem is how to get a piece of him ! (nearly always a him at a guess) with these mad newbie SnG tables the problem isn't one maniac but 6+ maniacs at the same table - everything gets bet, no raise is respected and and ak will get called down to the river even if it gets no draws! (you should play one really ! - $6 of laughter therapy if you've had a bad beat that day - it is difficult to exaggerate just how mad the party poker $5 SnG tables are:) anyone here just been thru this and care to give me hints on how to solve the problem (other than go up to $20 tables of course - this is personal now :) | ||
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| Re: dealing with maniacs, RonnieB, 29. Dec 2003 05:27 | ||
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| Some games are better than others. Game selection is one of the keys to making money. If you find the games on Poker Stars to be more lucrative than the other sites, play Poker Stars. I play the 5 and 10 SNG's at Poker Stars as well. If you play fairly tight preflop and make the most of your opportunities, you will make the final few consistently. If you can catch a big hand or two, you can win the tournament. Most of the maniacs will bust out way before you. You seem to be taking it as a challenge to bust the maniacs. If this is one of your goals, I suggest you really tighten up your game. Wait for the big one and then bust one of them. Good luck Ron Ron | ||
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| Re: dealing with maniacs, Jojo, 30. Dec 2003 06:42 | ||
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| Ya, the party $5 sng's are good for a laugh. I started my poker career there exclusively, I wouldn't play anything else. My favorite memory is the guy who reraised my 10x BB preflop and he shows 27o(By the way he won when 2 2 7 came out). You seriously have to play super, ultra tight if you want to gain an advantage by being there. I used to place in the money by folding every hand until 3 people. Obviously you can use some psychology once you get down to 5 people and hopefully have good reads on everyone by then. So being said, I wouldn't play any hands early(More than 5 people in the game still) except maybe the top 10 hands and maybe Ax suited...but you really don't need to, it seems best to stay out of the way for the 5-6 "any 2 cards can win" players to either double up or bust out. The blinds aren't going to cost you much that early and usually you can get to 5 people constantly by the 25-50 level. I gave up on these tourneys once I actually learned how to play poker, amazing how different everyone else plays. The $10 tourneys are much better and by $30 they seemed to play with basic strategy except for a few. If you can even get in a $5 party sng game before the seats fill, you should win something. Jojo | ||
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| Re: dealing with maniacs, Harold Pierce, Jr., 29. Dec 2003 16:10 | ||
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| MouseEars | ||
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| Re: dealing with maniacs, foraces, 28. Dec 2003 17:04 | ||
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| I personally perfer low limit pot limit to NL. The maniacs cannot push all in pre-flop, So you get to see the 1st three community cards before you have to make a decision for all your chips. At least on the flop you can have some sort of idea where you stand even against a maniac. Also, the true maniacs tend not to play pot limit as much because they CANNOT go all in pre-flop | ||
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| Re: dealing with maniacs, excession, 28. Dec 2003 17:40 | ||
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| hey foraces! i've just logged in from a $5 PL at pokerstars - I came third (you are heads up as I type this :) that was my ninth straight tounrey in the money at PS/Wh by the way- and my first ever PL - by contrast I burnt thru all 8 tourneys ($48) at party poker without placing once :( | ||
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| Re: dealing with maniacs, foraces, 28. Dec 2003 17:52 | ||
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| yeah, I came in 2nd, had AK flop came A,3,9 we went 4 raises he had 3rag and a 3 hit the turn. Frustrating, but as you said he was a calling station. 2nd aint bad though | ||
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| Re: dealing with maniacs, excession, 30. Dec 2003 17:57 | ||
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| ah - after another day's practice I got it :) In last 24 hrs I have played 6 $5 SnG's at paradise (started when down to last $6) - finished in the money in 5 of them, 4th in other ! :) now at $48 (that means in two weeks since starting I am -$2 at paradise, -$48 at Party, +$150 at WH, and +$18 at Pokerstars..that has paid for the jones and slansky books (on their way) and the licence fee for poker-tracker :) - I can now step up to $10 games and lose the 20% rake issue... (I was already playing £10 games at WH and winning but beating the maniacs on the popular sites was a skill/learning issue for me rather than a revenue maximising one) How to prosper in Maniac-Land: most importantly I just stick to limit games..a bad beat does less damage , you can afford to call bluffs and I'd be daft to try to bluff a maniac off a pot anyway.. tried two tactics both of which work fine... first is the better from a poker playing viewpoint - which is to identify the real maniacs, pay to see a few extra flops but still keep it fairly tight, don't assume that pre-flop maniac raises (or post flop bets) indicate serious strength and accept that they will get lucky on turn/river one in three vs you..also if you can slow play em until turn they will bet and reraise like morons to try to force you off the pot as you are 'weak'..and they will feel that they are in the driving position... you can also use pot odds to work out when to draw (provided it is cheap) - this is almost like cheating a maniac as pot odds aren't something he respects much- he'll just complain how lucky you were - quick and dirty calculation method is number of out outs x 2 = % you make hand its worth spending cash defending the blinds against them as they will try to push you off with utter rubbish..and like most bullies they get a bit scared when their stack drops and you're not intimidated once I build a stack to about 1.5-2x the initial one I tend just to tighten up to make sure I make the money.. the alternative is to make like a rock (easier if you are browsing the net so you don't get tempted to get involved in the lousy play -) look to play bb and then just premium hands and to pick up a couple of wins by lvl 4 time... as you have made like a rock and the worst maniacs have busted out by then you also get a bit more respect for your raises this way.. oh and read up and practice/watch some head to heads and 3 handers +$19 is a lot better than +$4 :) but really the secret is just getting 'in the zone' and don't let the bad beats get you (you will get at least 1-2 every game - in one game tonight 4 consecutive times one guy was one to one all in vs me with an inferior hand (and odds) on the flop - 4/4 he made it on turn or river - twice on 7% draws) - just try not to overcommit to any one pot until you are in the money - the longer you stay alive the longer the fact that you are leaving the flop with better hand will titl the odds in your favour... ok I'm sure all the above is common sense/newbie stuff but I still hope that some of you struggling with maniacs find it useful - you can take em down, and do the whole poker world a great service at the same time :) good luck...and see you at the $10 tables :) | ||
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