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Server Time: 5/16/2012 10:05:26 PM PACIFIC |
 Fearful of the of MUBS with top-two?, mkpoker, 26. Dec 2003 22:00 | ||
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| (That's "Monsters Under the Bed Syndrome")...always fearing the worst...and playing weak-tight as a result. Here's an interesting hand from UB 3/6 Kill tonight. I'm fairly sure I chickened out on the turn and river and should have been more aggressive. Would welcome others' thoughts (AND I'm sure I'll catch heat for the pre-flop play...though I maintain it was OK under the circumstances). Two important notes about this table: 1) It was tighter than usual for this limit online (few multi-way pots); and 2) There were two players to my left who limped with any ace, always, suited or not (I realize these two observations are somewhat contradictory). UTG, I'm dealt KQd and open-raise. I know this isn't a raising hand, but I didn't want to lose this hand to A4o AND I figured I had a decent chance of taking the blinds, which would have been fine with me. All fold to the SB, who calls. BB folds, we're heads up. The SB seems a relatively solid player. Flop comes JK7 rainbow (no diamonds). I'm virtually certain I'm ahead because SB presumably would have reraised with AK or KK (and probably JJ also). He checks, I bet, he calls. Turn is Qs, giving me top two and putting a spade draw on the board. I think about going for a check-raise, but decide to bet out because SB would probably check back. So I bet, SB RAISES, and I nearly fall out of my chair. I can't imagine this is a bluff, given the strength I've shown. Could he hold QQ? Doubtful, since he'd probably 3-bet preflop. Maybe 77 and he waited until the turn to pop it? I finally settle on AT, maybe even ATs, the ultimate MUBS in this situation. With AT (suited or not), he'd have odds to call a single flop bet with a gutshot plus an overcard. Now I figure, he's gotten lucky and holds the nuts. Fearful of the MUBS, I call. (Fortunately for me, I wasn't fearful enough to serious contemplate folding). He bets out on the river (his first lead), confirming my fears. I can practically feel the MUBS coming to haunt me when I make what I think is a crying call. In retrospect, I think I was too fearful. I should have reraised the turn here. Sure, he might have AT, but at these limits, there's many other hands with which he could have called a PF raise and then raised on the turn (QJ, KTs, JTs to name but a few). What would you have done here? And BTW, he held AKo! Didn't reraise PF and check-called the flop with top-pair, top-kicker. | ||
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| Re: Fearful of the of MUBS with top-two?, Angel, 27. Dec 2003 01:41 | ||
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| We might define 'relatively solid player ' differently - but if you have reason to respect his play then I don't think you played it fine. A couple of thoughts which you didn't mention but I would add to the list of things you think about is - you said what you thought of him. What does he think of you? Also, the hand I suspected you'd be looking at on the end was T9 which would have given him a double gut shot on the flop and almost twice the reasons for calling the flop. My point is that you weren't considering this hand - was there a reason why not or was it simply an omission? | ||
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| Re: Fearful of the of MUBS with top-two?, SmallFeesh, 27. Dec 2003 11:13 | ||
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| well... first.. there is nothing wrong with raising KQ in low limits.... but i prefer not to.. i dont even raise AK or JJ in low limits... AA KK and QQ are the only hands i usually raise.. not the case in higher limits... where my opening hands go to medium pocket pairs and AK... but where i fold KJ, QJ, J10, etc in early/mid position... but enough on my play... u hit your flop... and i would definatley bet out there... now the turn.. it is iffy.. A10.. unless there were alot of callers on the flop i would fold that hand... generally... it is a gut shot! yuck! so you shouldnt be to worried about that... J10... if they called a raise with that they need to have their head examined... you said he was a solid player right?? so i would have probably check raised the turn.. your hand got even stronger, and you should get some more $ for it! but when raised i would have definatley popped him back one! if he raises you can hit yourself in the head for being so aggresive as he probably has you beat.. a set.. or the straight... etc. so in all thinking... you played it right.. you backed off because you didnt have the nuts... but folding is to weak in my opinion! | ||
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| Re: Fearful of the of MUBS with top-two?, SmallFeesh, 27. Dec 2003 11:17 | ||
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| wait a minute... how could you check raise the turn?? you said you thought about check raising but you thought the SB would check back... hes first to check... typo?? | ||
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| Re: Fearful of the of MUBS with top-two?, mkpoker, 28. Dec 2003 09:25 | ||
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| Good eyes. Sorry 'bout that. He acted first. I couldn't check-raise the turn b/c I was acting last. He checkraised me....not the other way around. | ||
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| Re: Fearful of the of MUBS with top-two? (Smallfeesh), Flakes, 27. Dec 2003 18:45 | ||
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| Why don't you raise with AK or JJ? Whether you're playing low limit, medium limit, or high limit, they are still preflop raising hands. If you only raise with AA, KK, and QQ, then you are playing too cautiously in my opinion and you will be much easier to read. Preflop, you should A), put the raise in when you've got the goods, B), give your hands a chance to hold up by trying to narrow the field, and C), have the know-how to play them accordingly postflop. Do you really want to limp in with JJ or AK only to allow all the other garbage in too cheaply? Noone says you 'have to' keep betting after the flop, but your first important decision does take place preflop, even though most money won or lost may come postflop. Also, some hands just play better against a smaller field a good majority of the time. Flakes | ||
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| Re: Fearful of the of MUBS with top-two? (Smallfeesh), SmallFeesh, 28. Dec 2003 04:38 | ||
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| let me correct myself... i dont ALWAYS not raise with AK or JJ... EVERYTHING is situational for me... it all depends on the players and the feel of the table.. i just raised with AKd tonite... and even though it was like the 2nd or 3rd time i had raised all night i still got a considerable amount of action! in fact... a guy called me with A2 no pair no draw on the flop... why i have no clue... but hey! i appreciated the action! raising with AK is a value bet in late position.. and a bet to get people out in early position... but what i've noticed in low limit 4/8 games in Vegas is people 1. dont notice when you raise and 2. dont notice what you raise... all they know is that they like to see a flop! i switch my game up a little here and there! one time ill raise AK on the button... and the next time mabey ill limp in! everything depends... its all situational... i firmly believe that play should be varied from time to time! And with JJ... i love it when i flop a set and no one thinks i have it because i didnt raise! now i rarely if never limp with AA KK or QQ... i just consider it a sin if i get beat by 7-2o! JJ on the other hand it NOT a high pair... its a medium pair! | ||
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| Re: Fearful of the of MUBS with top-two?, mkpoker, 28. Dec 2003 09:23 | ||
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| Hey Angel, thanks for the response. I didn't consider T9 at all (that was my problem, I think...I instictively assumed the worst instead of considering the range of hands that he could have held). Instead of describing the player as "relatively solid," perhaps I should have said this: "There were three very bad players at the table. He wasn't one of them. I didn't have a solid read on his play, but he hadn't done anything noticeably bad or noticeably tricky to date." | ||
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