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Server Time: 8/21/2008 9:34:04 PM PACIFIC |
 10 % Rake--anyone want to play?, kennycatkiller, 26. Dec 2003 14:37 | ||
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| If I advertised a new Hold-Em game, where I owned the facilities, tables, chips, etc., how many of you would be eager to "get on the list" if I told you up front that I was going to rake each pot 10%. That is, if the pot contained $100, I would rake $10, and if the pot had $400, I would rake $40. And so, on and on. Yet, that is exactly what thousands of players do every day! Most of the SNG tournaments on the internet are $10+$1, $20+$2, $30+$3, etc. The daily tournaments at The Orleans in Las Vegas (and, Iam sure many others), rake 10% right off the top, including re-buys and add-ons. Now, I am aware that there is a tremendous amount of "dead money" in the larger tournaments, which is advantageous to the 100 or so really "world-class" players, but, for the average Joe like me, 10% raked right off the top is quite a hurdle to overcome, even if I should get lucky and make the money list. Personally, I now look for "freerolls" and "money-added" tournaments, and am very much aware of the rake in live money games. Anyone else have an opinion? | ||
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| Re: 10 % Rake--anyone want to play?, Lottery Larry, 26. Dec 2003 18:06 | ||
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| They are expensive but not quite the same thing as raking 10% off every pot. | ||
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| Re: 10 % Rake--anyone want to play?, timmer, 27. Dec 2003 11:59 | ||
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| I think the Oleans Vig is more like 13% or 15% maybe higher. | ||
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| Re: 10 % Rake--anyone want to play?, Zappsweden, 12. Feb 2004 04:24 | ||
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| I will repeat what I wrote on www.thepokerforum.com " Do not get me wrong. I have nothing against ppl making money, but since Poker has no bank then it is is more like chess to me. Duel. Man to man. Whatever the house takes for fee should cover their cost, not be a cash cow. The rakes of 0-5% (often roughly 3%) of the pot are way too big. Online software is no way near the maintenance cost of having thousands of real dealers and security staff working around a table (like in non online tables). The Rakes are so freaking high! After winning-losing-winning-losing for a long while, that rake will add up and be a reason why 99% of the players will not break even. After calculating how much I lose due to the Rakes the house take from every pot, I now feel more that I am dooming my money rather than playing for fun. An example: www.intertopspoker.com has more than 1000 poker tables constantly playing (Hold'em, Omaha, 7-Stud, ...), lets for simplicity say 1200 tables. Their average pot (of all the 1200 tables) is roughly $40. Every hand takes, say 1 minute. That means total pots on the tables available at Intertopspoker (and other companies sharing those exact same tables) are POT SUM (tables*average pot value*hands played): per hour: 1200*40*60=$2880000 is roughly 3 million dollars! per day: 69 Million dollars per year: 25000 Million dollars so, assuming the Rakes are about 3% on average from all the pots then they make gross 25000*0.03=750 Million Dollars 750 MILLION DOLLARS ON RAKES EACH YEAR!!! even if there are 10 companies sharing those table, it is still a Gross of 750/10=75 Million Dollars. The rakes could be much much less than now and they would still make a decent profit. The problem is ofcourse that the Rake system will (after you played 1000+ deals) make it so ridiculous hard for an average person to break even and enjoy the game. I am sorry to say it, but in the current situation I just feel like there is a hungry bank sitting at the table. I also feel that by accepting those odds, my image of being a thinker and a serious player quicky turns into an image of being a crazy guy who cannot stop blowing his money away. " | ||
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| Re: 10 % Rake--anyone want to play?, Cohiba, 12. Feb 2004 05:09 | ||
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| Don't worry. In time, probably not too long from now, there will certainly be a reduced rake or rake free site running. In a free market society it's just a matter of time before this happens. And when it does the Party Pokers will change there tune of greed and poorly run/serviced operations. Frankly, i'm surprised such a site has not surfaced yet. When it does the BB/Hr rate for winners will be noticeably higher. | ||
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| Re: 10 % Rake--anyone want to play?, duquedelsol, 12. Feb 2004 06:45 | ||
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| You cannot place a sports wager without paying a 10% vig... Yet thousands of people make their living as professional handicappers... And millions more do it recreationally... If you can beat the vig - then why not do it... I personally do better in SnGs than in cash games - even with the reduced rake...I do not know why - I just do - so that is where I play... I really do need to get back to regular tables to work out my issues - but the fact remains that I make more money above and beyond the vig in tourneys than I do at cash games... (side note - I really do see your point - and when I see how much money I have "lost" in entry fees (close to $200 already this year) it is frustrating) | ||
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| Re: 10 % Rake--anyone want to play?, hokie95, 12. Feb 2004 06:50 | ||
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| Well, that's the cost of entering the tournament. I haven't done the math, but I bet if we sat 0.25/0.50 ten handed, all with $5.50 and played until one of us had it all, the rake would be more than $5.00. Here's an easy example. Assuming only a $0.10 rake/hand, it would only take 50 hands to equal $5.00. Most SNGs last much longer than 50 hands. So, isit really that bad a deal? | ||
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| Re: 10 % Rake--anyone want to play?, Palinya, 12. Feb 2004 08:08 | ||
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| The rake on these works out to a lot less than the rake on a ring game. The thing is thing isn't 10% per hand it's 10% per tournament. | ||
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| Re: 10 % Rake--anyone want to play?, hokie95, 12. Feb 2004 08:13 | ||
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| on 12. Feb 2004 08:08 Palinya wrote: > The rake on these works out to a lot less than the rake on a ring game. The thing is > thing isn't 10% per hand it's 10% per tournament. True. But I guess my point is: the original post seemed to think this was outrageous. I don't think it is, as the rake is presumably roughly avergaed out in a ring game to cover expenses and make a profit. Well, the same infrastructure (one table for 50+ hands) costs the same to run, I would think. So, you're not getting ripped off in this instance by a profiteering site. It's a fair charge for the tournament. In my humble opinion. | ||
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| Re: 10 % Rake--anyone want to play?, Palinya, 12. Feb 2004 08:25 | ||
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| yes, I was agreeing with you :) | ||
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