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Server Time: 8/30/2008 9:26:09 AM PACIFIC |
 A couple of NL slowplays, palman, 26. Dec 2003 10:40 | ||
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| $50 SnG on party Situation 1: Blinds 50/100 UTG with AK, I have 800 some chips. Raise to 300. All fold except BB who has same stack as me. Flop A77... he checks/ I check. Turn J, he bets 250, I push remaining stack in, he calls, turns over AJ. This I'm not too worried about because the result likely would have been similar had I bet the flop or not, but still hurts letting him see it for free. From observing his play I felt as if he would have bluffed on the next card if he did not have the ace, and if he had the ace he's still a great underdog. Situation 2: Blinds 25/50 on the button with AA. I have 1900 chips 2 limpers ahead of me, I raise to 200, first limper calls... second limper pushes all in for 555 chips total (had A7o), thus 355 more for me to call. But I'm looking to hopefully trap the other limper so I just call, and the first limper calls (he has 1500 chips total) Flop comes J65.... he checks... I put it to 400, he pushes all in for 500+ more, I call Turn comes 2, river x First limper turns over 34s and I am left with about 400 chips. Now the question is should I have definately pushed here, with a good amount already in the pot, or should I have trapped. Obviously I'm disgusted with his calling 555 chips this early if ever with 34s, but I got him all in with a 33% chance, which I suppose is what I was trapping for anyways. And if the answer for this situation is my flat calling of the all in is a bad play... how bad of a play? is it a marginal situation, or a blatant violation of all logic involving poker? *note* when asked about his 34s play his response was "well I assumed everyone else was on high cards, so I thought I might have the advantage" Comments on either play? | ||
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| Re: A couple of NL slowplays, stdioh, 26. Dec 2003 19:52 | ||
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| I'd say that in general, people slowplay about ten times more than they should. I can see just calling with AA preflop against an all-in raise in the hopes of trapping somebody else, but I'd only do that if I was a very big stack and could afford to lose the pot. If I wasn't a very big stack, I'd shove in and hope to either take the one player's stack easilly or at least not give anybody much chance to get away alive after a flop doesn't hit them. As for having AK on a board of A77 in that situation, I think that betting the flop is essential. What I'm looking for there is not just value if I have the best hand, but information if I have the worst hand. Most players who will be holding a 7 when the board comes A77 will get greedy and when you bet the flop, they will want to slowplay you. Thus if I make a bet there and just get a call, alarm bells will sound and I'll be willing to chuck the hand on the turn if I'm out of position and catch a big bet (though I'll likely make a small bet on the turn to dissuade a bluff) or check the turn if I am in position and take a free river - though against the right sort of player I'll make a small turn bet in position looking for a big checkraise, so that I can dump my cards right there and not have to worry about folding a winner against a river bluff. So yeah, in that case, I'd say betting the flop is really important. Anybody with a smaller ace is likely to reraise you a small or medium reraise. A giant reraise and a call are the things that scare me there. So not only did you give a free card to a worse hand, but then you played him on the turn when he beat you. For all you knew he could have been holding a 7 and going slow on you more or less correctly instead of holding an ace and going slow on you badly. Long story short, if you are unsure when to slowplay, then don't slowplay at all until you *know* when it'll be a good time to do so. Generally I reserve going slow for times when I've got a nigh invulnerable hand...when I flop a set of kings on a K82 rainbow board for example. Sure I could still lose the hand, but I'm holding the mortal nuts and it is unlikely anybody else has a worse hand that they'll call a bet with right now, so I want to let them catch up a bit. Maybe you can induce somebody to bet at you with nothing at all and that'll be the only way to get the money. If I'm at a very agressive table where there is a raise virtually every hand preflop, then I might limp-reraise AA in early position, but I'll *never* try that crap with KK - the hand is just too vulnerable. If you do limp - reraise with AA in early position, then make it an all-in reraise, since anybody who is even remotely intelligent will catch on if you make a small reraise and then you'll only be played by hands that beat your own. | ||
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| Re: A couple of NL slowplays, palman, 26. Dec 2003 20:44 | ||
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| The 7 wasnt really a concern since I tripled the blinds at 50/100 from UTG, and the big blind who only had 800 chips himself called with the A77 board. Plus I was committed to the pot and the hand with only 550 chips left myself.... so if he did have the 7 thats just one of the breaks. My logic on this slowplay is as following 1. If he has an ace he's going to call or push any bet I make on the flop, so if I give him a free card it wouldn't increase my chances of winning the pot. (he only has 500 chips left blinds 50/100, pot of 650) Thus he'll call any bet I make on the turn, so I have essentially nothing to gain if he holds an ace. 2. If he doesnt hold an ace and doesnt improve, I thought it was a strong possibility at the time he would lead out on the turn and I could get a few more chips out of him. 3. Thus the only real danger in the play is if he's holding a pocket pair and hits his 2 outer on the turn. I figured the extra chips I could get from his potential bluff was worth it. Thoughts on this? I agree with your slowplay assessment.... one of the reasons I made the post is that I very rarely do slowplay, I guess I decided to mix it up today, and wanted to get some feedback on the mixups I was doing. | ||
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| Re: A couple of NL slowplays, stdioh, 31. Dec 2003 09:45 | ||
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| 1. When you are vulnerable and have the best of it now, it is always a good idea to get money in the pot. 2. Never count on anybody doing anything. | ||
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| Re: A couple of NL slowplays, palman, 1. Jan 2004 18:22 | ||
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| I suppose the question is just how vulnerable is AK against A77 flop from a player who calls a preflop raise? | ||
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