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Server Time: 12/1/2008 8:46:14 PM PACIFIC |
 Top pair top kicker in NL, iceman5, 24. Dec 2003 13:44 | ||
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| I'd like to get some opinions on playing top pair top kicker in NL. This is $25 buy in NL (blinds .10/.25) Here are 2 hands that I played today.... #1) I have AJs in MP. Its folded to me and I raise $1.50 ( this sounds like a big raise but quite normal for this table). Only the button calls. We both have about $40 stacks but he has been sitting out since I sat down so I dont know if hes good or lucky. The pot is $3.35. The flop comes JT4 with 2 hearts. I have top top and there is a straight and flush draw so I have to protect my hand. I bet the pot. He calls. The pot is now about $10. If he had an overpair he shouldve raised so I figure he is on a draw. The turn is a 2 (JT4). No help so I bet $7. He calls again. Damn. The pot is now $24. The river is another blank. Here is where I wasnt sure what to do. If I make a good size bet, the old "he will only call if you are beaten" comes into play. But if I check, he is going to try to steal the pot so I have to call. I bet $10. He called and had JT for 2 pair. Did I push top top too far or was I right to think he was on a draw? For Lee, this is what I was talking about people calling what looks like too big of a preflop raise. (JT?) #2) I have AJ again but this time on the button. One guy limps and I raise $1. The blinds and the limper call. The pot is $4. The flop comes J73. Checked to me and I bet $4. The blinds fold and the limper raises all in (another $5). So its $5 to me with a pot of $13. I call. The turn is another J and the river is a blank. He had 77 for the boat. Actually after typing this out, this looks like a fold to me. Believe it or not I actually win at HoldEM. It may not seem like it because I post mostly losing hands to learn from them. I won about $70 this morning in this game. | ||
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| Re: Top pair top kicker in NL, mroban, 24. Dec 2003 14:16 | ||
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| Iceman: I have lost more $$ playing hands like those!! I am a winning NL online player too so don't feel like such a fish. 1. First situation, I played a hand just like that today (and lost half my stack). The problem is playing the hand out of position. You articulated the problem perfectly - if you dont bet he will bet and steal the pot. The nature of NL is a game of position, so you don't really want to play those hands when you don't have a positional advantage on your opponent. In Cloutier/McEvoy's book Championship NL Holdem, he advocates shutting it down if your opponent calls a bet on the flop and you are out of position. So if you followed Cloutier advice (which I am guilty of not doing very often) you would have just checked on the turn and river and basically just try to play it for a showdown. You are essentially giving up the pot and assuming your top pair is no good. You have to ask yourself "what could he be calling with". I think the only situation it is worth deviating from here is if you can really put your opponent on a draw and the next card is a blank. But if you are unsure, I think you gain more over time just letting it go. 2. This situation screams of a set. Before you told me he had a set of sevens, I was able to figure it out how he bets. You really have to be careful with sets. Players will usually slowplay them and let you bet the hand. Be careful when you get called and then check raised. You can basically fold at that point. | ||
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| Re: Top pair top kicker in NL, Schuster, 24. Dec 2003 14:55 | ||
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| I wouldn't have played either hand from the start if the this was the texture of the game. It's like this. AJ suited or not is a very borderline hand in any no limit game. When I open with a standard raise with an AJ, I'm really hoping to take the blinds. Usually this means I'm making it about 3 times the big blind to win 1.5 big blinds. Here you're risking twice as much to win the same amount and you have a not so strong hand. Here's what I'd suggest. If the game will play such that opening for a raise of 6 big blinds will still get callers with hands as weak as JT (which is pretty awful in no limit play most of the time) then don't play marginal hands. You're going to get paid and paid some more on your premium hands, why bother mucking around with the marginal stuff? Play AK, play your big pairs, sometimes play AQ and medium pairs in the back of the order. Raise them up that high before the flop and play strongly after the flop. The less the blinds in comparison to the size of the pots, the tighter you can afford to play. If your opponents continue to play the same way, then continue to take advantage of their weakness! If they don't consider the size of the pot when considering their options, then make good use of that. The downsides are of course the boredom that might come over you from playing so few hands, and your opponents might also catch on to your plan, although from what you say, it doesn't sound like it. Hope this helps. Good luck in future games iceman! Lee | ||
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| Re: Top pair top kicker in NL, iceman5, 24. Dec 2003 15:48 | ||
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| I agree that AJ is not a great hand in NL. I need to be more careful with it. In my session today, I had taken the blinds a couple times with AJ and even AT. 3 times I played AJ and got a J high flop all 3 times. I won one good sized pot and lost the other 2. Neither of the 2 loses were because of the kicker though. One was the JT that flopped 2 pair and one was the guy who flopped the set of 7's. Paying off the guy with the set was an obvious mistake. | ||
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| Re: Top pair top kicker in NL, philly, 25. Dec 2003 11:51 | ||
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| It is also very important to recognize the texture of the game, as well, in these situations. I play NL on UB, and I find some games where people will really fight it out with top pair and medium kickers, other games that require stronger holdings. Always be aware of what's going on at your table, especially as this may change several times in a session as players come and go. | ||
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