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Server Time: 12/1/2008 8:56:21 PM PACIFIC |
 Question about tells for the professionals, SeanCandy, 23. Dec 2003 06:56 | ||
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| Yesterday at work we got into a heated debate about whether tells exist in poker. One member of the debate said that poker pro's are better at the mathematics behind poker and that tells have nothing to do with poker. He said that pro's use it to sell books and glamorize poker. He kept going to the example of Rounders saying that the KGB tell is a bunch of garbage. He also claimed that there is no pro that makes any significant amount of profit from his ability to catch physical tells off of his opponents. Another member of the conversation said that there is no possible way someone could gain any information from the way he acted in poker game. So, I was wondering what the pro's on this site think of these statements. | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, Angel, 23. Dec 2003 08:06 | ||
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| I suppose the argument could revolve around the word 'significant'. As in, what constitutes a significant part of one's income? By my definition of the word significant, a significant part of my income is based on tells. I would be hard pressed to put an actual number to it as decisions which may lead to winning a single pot at the poker table are often based on combinations of factors. | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, Barry T, 23. Dec 2003 10:48 | ||
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| Hi. Where do people get these ideas?" Tells are a significant part of my earn. Look, tells are named that for a reason. People "tell" you what they are holding. Don't your friends think they could do better at poker if their opponents tell them what they have? Well, opponents do, even though it is in code (acting quickly, looking bored, saying "I don't think you have it, I raise") and you have to decipher it. Once you learn to decipher these, though, it can make a big difference to your income, both in saving bets and winning pots. Here is a tell: I am sitting next to a guy from another country. At one point, he whispers to his spectator "I need a five". He says this in an obscure foreign language I happen to understand. A five comes on the flop. I fold top pair. See, he told me. Sure some tells are subtler (and a lot are not, though they are physical), but they are out there. Do some people have no tells? Maybe. But few are in that category. Very very few. BarryT | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, R4, 23. Dec 2003 11:42 | ||
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| Barry - I have a question for you - if you are the famous Barry T it would be great if i could get your response. Here it is. I've have been playing holdem since the mid 90's at the 20/40 and 50/100 levels and I am a wiinner - some call me a pro but I earn my main living out side of poker. Of course the games I play have many other pros (most are just regular losers - but have poker knowlege) and I assume they are trying to make me for "tells" so I set "tell-traps." As a pro yourself how do you defend against tell-traps? For me I go by feel, logic, past history, etc. Even if I detect what i think is a classic tell I won't bank on it without the other factors - feel, logic, past history, etc. But forget how I play - I really want to know what you think...Thanks on 23. Dec 2003 10:48 Barry T wrote: > Hi. Where do people get these ideas?" > > Tells are a significant part of my earn. > > Look, tells are named that for a reason. People "tell" you what they are holding. > Don't your friends think they could do better at poker if their opponents tell them > what they have? Well, opponents do, even though it is in code (acting quickly, > looking bored, saying "I don't think you have it, I raise") and you have to decipher > it. > > Once you learn to decipher these, though, it can make a big difference to your > income, both in saving bets and winning pots. > > Here is a tell: I am sitting next to a guy from another country. At one point, he > whispers to his spectator "I need a five". He says this in an obscure foreign > language I happen to understand. A five comes on the flop. I fold top pair. > > See, he told me. Sure some tells are subtler (and a lot are not, though they are > physical), but they are out there. > > Do some people have no tells? Maybe. But few are in that category. Very very > few. > > BarryT | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, Barry T, 23. Dec 2003 21:04 | ||
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| Hi. I do not how famous I am, but I am the guy who writes for CardPlayer, and I play professionally. (Click Biographies on to of this page). I beleive sophisticated players play as tell-free as possible, and they are correct to do so. That said, I will, on rare occassions, set easy tell traps for unsophisiticated players. I might furtively look back at my hole cards if a flop of all one suit comes and I have a flush against the right person. (Every one who plays with me regularly knows I always know what suits I have and never check back). Other regular pros rarely try this against me, because I know them. So if a true pro tries to induce an extra bet with "Gee, I almost folded but I guess I call" actions on the turn, they do not see the rriver bet from me. One of the beauties of our sport is everything depends, and everything can be turned around. Against top players, I play my cards and instincts, and try to ignore whatever they are doing. BarryT | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, R4, 24. Dec 2003 09:53 | ||
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| Thanks Barry - That was a great answer to my not very direct question and it will definitly help me - I appreciate the insight - thank you. | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, FeliciaLee, 23. Dec 2003 11:06 | ||
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| Funny that you brought this up. For many months, I had a feeling that there were "battle lines" being drawn on another poker forum. There were the low limit online players, then there were a myriad of live players, at different limits. The online guys kept insisting over and over again that there was no "psychology of poker." There were no tells, we didn't need to read hands or "play the player." It was obvious to me that these small stakes online players had never played live. Or maybe they played a 2/4 game while visiting Vegas or Atlantic City. Their inexperience, to me, was plain. More recently, the math/rote guys have gotten much more aggressive and rude about their position. They also seem to be growing in numbers vastly, compared to us middle limit, "live" grinders. If a live player posts something that even smacks slightly of psychology, or not playing purely by the "numbers," some of these guys go on the attack, flaming us in such vast numbers, until we are unable to defend ourselves anymore, and just give up. I kept waiting for the day that the final battle lines would be drawn. Today was/is that day. Someone posted in the mid and high stakes forum of that group that there IS no psychology in poker. Playing the player simply does not exist, and anyone who says otherwise is just fooling himself. Naturally, this thread has sparked a ton of interest, having over 175 views, and 15 responses, in the first hour alone. The whole dilema, as I see it, is that the low limit, online, mathmatical, "rote" player, simply cannot see what he does not know. It would be like asking a man to describe childbirth. It is impossible. So instead of him admitting he has no experience in this field, he simply insists that he is correct, and all of the "live" players are wrong. I have a feeling that the live players are not going to win any kind of online forum battle, as we are too few, and the online players are very vehement in their fight. It may be that we are correct, but there are just too many who are ignorant of thousands of hours of live, middle to high limit play. Felicia :) | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, Schuster, 23. Dec 2003 11:09 | ||
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| I can't tell you how glad I am that there isn't any discussion like that on this forum. I can't understand how you can possibly make a claim like that. By the way, is that the 2+2 forums? Lee | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, FeliciaLee, 23. Dec 2003 11:18 | ||
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| Yes, I feel that UPF is more adult oriented, and observant of human decency, by far. You are correct about the forum. I quoted several passages out of Sklansky's "Theory of Poker," as a rebuttal. Basically I could have quoted the entire book, had that been legal, lol. I decided to quote the most direct passages. I have little hope that this will change things. The people on the purely mathmatical side cannot understand TOP, it makes no sense in their worlds, since they have no experience. That they have finally come to completely annihilate Sklansky on his own forum is sad, but has been in the works for some time. Since David rarely posts, and never of a controversial nature, I'm sure they felt the time was ripe. Felicia :) | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, KJo, 24. Dec 2003 00:04 | ||
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| Felicia, with all due respect, why do you bother with them and fighting the fight? Their ignorance is profit to the rest of us- albeit on a macro scale, as it probably won't ever trickle down to us, but you get the point. I just don't see the point in trying to educate the ignorant when they don't want to be educated. Eli on 23. Dec 2003 11:18 FeliciaLee wrote: > Yes, I feel that UPF is more adult oriented, and observant of human decency, by far. > > You are correct about the forum. I quoted several passages out of Sklansky's "Theory of > Poker," as a rebuttal. Basically I could have quoted the entire book, had that been legal, > lol. I decided to quote the most direct passages. > > I have little hope that this will change things. The people on the purely mathmatical side > cannot understand TOP, it makes no sense in their worlds, since they have no experience. > > That they have finally come to completely annihilate Sklansky on his own forum is sad, but has > been in the works for some time. Since David rarely posts, and never of a controversial > nature, I'm sure they felt the time was ripe. > > Felicia :) | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, FeliciaLee, 24. Dec 2003 09:53 | ||
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| LOL, because I'm a dope, Eli. Haven't you figured that out by now? I'm infinitely stubborn and want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I see these young guys posting, and some are wavering on the fence between buying what the online-math guys say, and believing the experts, that there is such a thing as "psychology of poker." Some are under 21, using their college spending money and legitimately trying to learn the game to the best of their ability. Felicia :) <<on 24. Dec 2003 00:04 KJo wrote: > Felicia, with all due respect, why do you bother with them and fighting the fight? Their ignorance > is profit to the rest of us- albeit on a macro scale, as it probably won't ever trickle down to us, > but you get the point. I just don't see the point in trying to educate the ignorant when they don't > want to be educated. > > Eli>> | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, majorkong, 25. Dec 2003 08:16 | ||
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| Felicia, I spend as much time on 2+2 as almost anyone, and I just don't see what you are so worked up about. I'd say about 75% of the hands posted on the Mid- and High-Stakes Forum are from live games and posted by intelligent people like mike l, clarkmeister, vehn, ulysses, andyfox, tommy angelo, snakehead, etc. I certainly don't see the forum "overrun by kiddies" the way you seem to describe. The Small-Stakes and Microlimit forums are mostly populated by rank beginners who are just learning the game. They often say a lot of stuff that is silly and wrong, but that is only because they are learning. I don't find them rude at all. When I add my input to one of their threads, I always get thanked. If you are talking about the Zoo, then maybe so... I don't read the Zoo... and it got its name for a good reason. The Zoo reminds me too much of RGP, so I just avoid it. I have been a regular poster for over a year and a half, and I have never had an incident where anyone behaved in a way that was less than civil towards me. Not to say that I did not see an inappropriate post from time to time... but I honestly don't see the problem that seems to bother you so. | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, 4 POKER, 23. Dec 2003 11:15 | ||
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| If someone was to say to me that there was no psychology in poker, I would simply nod my head and say, "Yup, you are absolutely correct"....and then hope that he sat down in my game ;-) 4P- | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, noiseboy, 23. Dec 2003 11:18 | ||
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| I LOVE to have those "pure math" guys in my game. I virtually ALWAYS know exactly where they are in a hand, so I steal a bunch of pots from them with no showdown whether I have a hand or not. And when they do have something, I'm often able to dodge the hand. Since they don't believe in tells, they don't realize that I can see the numbers clicking behind their eyes when they are on the draw, and when they have a big hand I can see the trembling in their fingers and the suddenly straight-up-to-the-table posture. I think a lot of the problem people have is with the implications of the word "tell" as in somebody "telling" you what they have. I think a better way to think about it is of a general "sense" of where your opponent is. It's often not possible to know your opponent's exact hole cards, although sometimes you can figure it out, but quite often what you end up with is a general sense of how strong or weak your opponent is. This can be incredibly valuable because anytime your opponent is weak you can win money regardless of your hand. | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, Mark Gregorich, 23. Dec 2003 11:32 | ||
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| Tells don't have to be so blatantly obvious as in the case of KGB and the oreos. More subtle yet just as reliable tells exist: the way players place their chips in the pot may indicate a draw, as may the speed at which they act; players to your left begin to fold before it is their turn to act; players glare at the dealer; players subconsciously glance at their chips when they catch a good card; and plenty more documented by Mike Caro in his book (if you play live poker and don't have this book, you are costing yourself money). A lot of my poker decisions are math based. This does not mean that I disregard the value of picking up tells, however. To maximize my profit in a poker game, I must work very hard to process all the information available to me. Accurately recognizing and interpreting tells is a valuable skill, and all else being equal, those who use tells more effectively will make more money than those who don't.. Mark | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, Russ, 23. Dec 2003 11:46 | ||
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| You use math to obtain the tells and tells to do the math. This is the reason why most professionals prefer to play other professionals as pros play consistently. The missing ingredient in this thread is 'instinct' which is the centrifuge that mixes tells and math to come to a final decision. Instinct at the end of the day is what wins and loses tournaments and monster pots. I can think of 50 times where someone thinks they have spotted my tells only to pay up big time. I have also lost big time by thinking that I have spotted tells. Online, the only tell I can think of is betting patterns. B&M introduces a lot more, but I have rehearsed the shaking hands bit so many times, I can win consistently even with nothing because of all those 'tell' followers. I play based off of feel and instinct. Everything else is smoke and mirrors. And please remember, Celebrity Poker Showdown sucks worse than a straight guy during his first day in prison. | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, Flakes, 24. Dec 2003 12:10 | ||
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| "This is the reason why most professional players prefer to play against other professionals, because they play consistently?" (What?!) Remember something Russ, being consistent does not mean being predictable. I don't know ANY pro who would reason with your line of thinking here. Most of the money that the pros earn is not coming from other pros unless he is so far ahead of them with his abilities. Pros prey off of the weak and less skilled.....not from those who are otherwise, equal in skill, and awareness. Flakes | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, SeanCandy, 23. Dec 2003 11:42 | ||
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| Wow these are some great posts....I've read them all to the people involved in the intial discussion. They are married to their position and there is really no point in discussing it with them further. I've learned some good things so far. Thanks All SC | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, Phish, 23. Dec 2003 12:50 | ||
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| Tells are real but in my opinion overstated in some of the weaker poker literature. I will use tells to gain an extra bet or two, or to steal a pot I might otherwise not have. But I would not rely on a tell to fold a hand I otherwise would've called. For example (and this is quite common against weak players). You bet the flop heads-up with nothing. Your opponent picks up his cards, looks genuinely like he wants to fold but then calls. I would bet the turn and oftentimes win right there. But let's say I have a hand that I had planned to call the river with. My opponent bets the river with confidence indicating a strong hand. I will still call. I will tend not to rely on a tell to potentially make a 7 bet mistake. Whereas I will use tells to risk one or two bets to maybe win 5 or 6 bets. | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, JACKBNIMBLE, 23. Dec 2003 13:00 | ||
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| I think there really is a clear demarcation between the online player and the brick and mortar grinders. I happen to be both....so I'd like to weigh in, because I think both positions are valid and have there place. Playing in mid-limit online line games to keep my skills sharp during frequent business trips has made me a much better player. I play online mostly by the math, unless I know the other players at the table. This is not to say I'll let myself get pushed, but online play does really come down to a mathmatical equation. Opposingly, I recently played in a 30/60 limit game at Commerce. I was last to act with K Q d. There were 3 people in the pot with me and the board was 3 d 3c jd. On the flop it was checked to me and I immediately raised and was called by two of the 3 remaining player. On the turn, the A d dropped, giving me the nut flush. Player 1 bet (I assume a smaller straight), and player 2 called and I called without a raise. The river came 7 s player 1 bet, player 2 raised and I immediately folded...why? Because on the turn, player 2 only called, but I've played with this gentleman before and he's a solid player. When he called the bet on the turn, his hand was shaky and he fumbled the chips a bit..very unlike him...because he was excited about having the nuts...I folded my nut flush to Aces full of 3s...because of a tell. You decide. | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, JACKBNIMBLE, 23. Dec 2003 13:02 | ||
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| and by the way...whoops...I meant to say that player 1 probably had a smaller flush...that's what I get for chatting and posting at the same time | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, iceman5, 23. Dec 2003 14:06 | ||
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| I am by no means a poker expert or an expert on tells. But heres what I know for a fact. I am a police detective in a major city. I have extensive training in the detection of lies. I have interogated murderers, ckild molestors and kidnappers. Believe me, there are proven ways to know when someone is lying. A good interrogator can even tell when another trained interrogator is lying. Without going into detail, this is because you cant stop your body from doing certain things even when you know you are doing it and someone is looking for it. Now, that doesnt mean that some tells cant be faked, but Im what Im saying is that Im quite sure that the pros can pick up on different tells from different people just like I can tell when someone is lying based on body language. Anyone who doesnt believe this needs to open their mind. | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, R4, 24. Dec 2003 10:02 | ||
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| Hi Jack - You said the tell was on the turn - yet you called the turn and folded the river. Why call the turn? on 23. Dec 2003 13:00 JACKBNIMBLE wrote: > I think there really is a clear demarcation between the online player and the brick and > mortar grinders. I happen to be both....so I'd like to weigh in, because I think both > positions are valid and have there place. > > Playing in mid-limit online line games to keep my skills sharp during frequent business > trips has made me a much better player. I play online mostly by the math, unless I know > the other players at the table. This is not to say I'll let myself get pushed, but online > play does really come down to a mathmatical equation. > > Opposingly, I recently played in a 30/60 limit game at Commerce. I was last to act with > K Q d. There were 3 people in the pot with me and the board was 3 d 3c jd. On the flop > it was checked to me and I immediately raised and was called by two of the 3 remaining > player. On the turn, the A d dropped, giving me the nut flush. Player 1 bet (I assume a > smaller straight), and player 2 called and I called without a raise. The river came 7 s > player 1 bet, player 2 raised and I immediately folded...why? > > Because on the turn, player 2 only called, but I've played with this gentleman before and > he's a solid player. When he called the bet on the turn, his hand was shaky and he > fumbled the chips a bit..very unlike him...because he was excited about having the > nuts...I folded my nut flush to Aces full of 3s...because of a tell. > > You decide. | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, Phish, 26. Dec 2003 12:33 | ||
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| on 24. Dec 2003 10:02 R4 wrote: >I think Jack used tells properly in his hand. He only called the turn (didn't raise) because his opponent's tell indicated a strong hand to him. But neither did he fold because he wasn't willing to risk making a 10-bet mistake based on a tell. But when his solid (meaning non-tricky) opponent raised on the river, I think it was not a difficult fold. Given that Jack had the nut flush, the only hand his solid opponent could've had was a full house, since he most likely would've raised the turn with a smaller flush (to put pressure on a higher diamond or a full house draw). Seems the tell was a reinforcing factor, rather than the sole reason for the fold. If it were the sole reason, he would've folded the turn. I think he gave the tell the proper value as he played the hand. Hi Jack - > > You said the tell was on the turn - yet you called the turn and folded the river. Why call the > turn? > > on 23. Dec 2003 13:00 JACKBNIMBLE wrote: > > I think there really is a clear demarcation between the online player and the brick and > > mortar grinders. I happen to be both....so I'd like to weigh in, because I think both > > positions are valid and have there place. > > > > Playing in mid-limit online line games to keep my skills sharp during frequent business > > trips has made me a much better player. I play online mostly by the math, unless I know > > the other players at the table. This is not to say I'll let myself get pushed, but online > > > play does really come down to a mathmatical equation. > > > > Opposingly, I recently played in a 30/60 limit game at Commerce. I was last to act with > > K Q d. There were 3 people in the pot with me and the board was 3 d 3c jd. On the flop > > it was checked to me and I immediately raised and was called by two of the 3 remaining > > player. On the turn, the A d dropped, giving me the nut flush. Player 1 bet (I assume a > > smaller straight), and player 2 called and I called without a raise. The river came 7 s > > player 1 bet, player 2 raised and I immediately folded...why? > > > > Because on the turn, player 2 only called, but I've played with this gentleman before and > > he's a solid player. When he called the bet on the turn, his hand was shaky and he > > fumbled the chips a bit..very unlike him...because he was excited about having the > > nuts...I folded my nut flush to Aces full of 3s...because of a tell. > > > > You decide. | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, Roy Cooke, 23. Dec 2003 13:08 | ||
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| I think I have made hundreds of thousands of dollars of of tells! Roy Cooke on 23. Dec 2003 06:56 SeanCandy wrote: > Yesterday at work we got into a heated debate about whether tells exist in > poker. > > One member of the debate said that poker pro's are better at the mathematics > behind poker and that tells have nothing to do with poker. He said that pro's > use it to sell books and glamorize poker. > He kept going to the example of Rounders saying that the KGB tell is a bunch of > garbage. He also claimed that there is no pro that makes any significant amount > of profit from his ability to catch physical tells off of his opponents. > > Another member of the conversation said that there is no possible way someone > could gain any information from the way he acted in poker game. > > So, I was wondering what the pro's on this site think of these statements. > > > > | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, 72suited, 24. Dec 2003 11:48 | ||
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| Tells are very much a part of the game. In general poker, math is just a part of the game. Every serious player must first have a solid foundation of the mathematics involved period. Instincts and the ability to read and classify players separate the pros and just good players. Why not use all the tools you can get? I play nothing but no-limit holdem. In my experience with no-limit I found that instinct and tells have are far more importance than math. There is nothing like moving all-in with nine high and winning the pot. In limit hold math would probably be more important than tells. | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, palman, 24. Dec 2003 12:01 | ||
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| I've probably made thousands of dollars simply in online NL tournaments, making calls against obviously tilting players shortly after they have lost a large hand, that perhaps I might not have made otherwise, and being thankful that they turn over 58o. I also take particular note if the player to my left puts autofold on late in tournaments, so I know that if I try to make a blind steal I only have to commit the minimum amount of chips possible to it for it to be effective. Often if an online player takes an extrodinary amount of time to decide how to play, and ends up checking, heads up, late in the tournament, he is often trying to induce a check out of the person after him since he is on a draw. Either that or he was on a bathroom break or has a complete monster (so its not a completely accurate tell, but it has some merit at least) | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, 72suited, 24. Dec 2003 12:17 | ||
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| I don't really play online. I would think that playing online would be harder to gain tells if any. Most likely close decisions would be made by pattern tells accumulated over time. | ||
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| Oswald Jacoby on Tells, Harold Pierce, Jr., 25. Dec 2003 15:09 | ||
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| In the first great book published on poker Oswald Jacoby, mathematician, champ bridge and master card player, states: But one should always bear in mind that in the final bet or bets the psychology of one's opponents is much more important than any of the _direct_ mathematical probabilities. The importance of tells depends on the game and the betting structure. In most all low limit games and expecially stud games, tells are unimportant. You play your hand against the board, and in a limited number of situtations you do have to take into account the play styles and abilities of your opponents. For Hold'em you do have to know who are the rocks, average players and maniacs. If a rock UTG raises the BB, you know he has top premium pair. If a maniac raises the BB, who knows? He might have looked at the clock on the wall and the time might 3:33 or 7:11 or even the month and date of his birthday. For me that is 8:01 (Aug 1st). However if the maniac raised the BB, there is only a 15% chance he has a hand that experts recommend is a playable starting hand. If you hand is in the top 15% or better of the recommended group, wack'em with a raise and be prepared to re-raise. This is a situation where knowledge of probablities for the gane is important. My new pre-flop decision lookup tables for low limit Texas Hold'em makes these decisions a piece of cake. Send you e=mail address to: 74563.30@compuserve.com for the most recent versions for normal and tight pre-flop play and for No Fold'em Hold'em, currentkly the rage on-line. -=-MousEars | ||
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| Re: Question about tells for the professionals, stdioh, 31. Dec 2003 09:18 | ||
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| I would say that *a very large portion* of my profit in poker comes from tells. If I pick up 3 things in a session (of say, 12 hours) that each save me a bet or make me a bet, that's a nice bonus. Where it really comes in is when I pick something up that saves me an entire pot. You don't have to save 10 big bets very often for that to add up quickly. Obviously, at the tiny limits you can play only the math and do very well, but when you're up against better players in harder games, their subtle tells can be the only thing that stands between you and the pavement outside. | ||
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| And an example, stdioh, 31. Dec 2003 09:29 | ||
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| And to prove a point, yesterday at Borgata, I folded QQ on the turn against a very bad player on a board that was 10 high without a reasonable straight and without a flush or a pair on board...and there were about 10 BB in the pot too. The thing is that I *knew* that I was drawing to 2 outs ... I'd say I knew within 99% at least. If I am wrong a fold costs me 11 bets and if I am right it saves me 2 bets unless I hit. My chance of hitting is about 5%, but there were a lot of players in preflop so I'd say that my queens are a little less live than that. Still, say 5% - now I have a 5% chance that I get there added to a 1% chance that I'm good already (not quite added, but close enough) so I've got about a 6% chance or 1/17 that I win the pot with 10 bets in it. This is a clear fold. Of course most people overestimate their reading abilities, but sometimes you just know beyond doubt. Especially when it's a case of knowing that you're beat. I put him on AA, but I thought that there was a small chance of KK. There was a tiny chance of something else, but it had to be a set then if it were. So here we see math alongside a tell that gave his hand away and a betting pattern that confirmed it making an easy fold. If he had said nothing at all, I would have called him down for sure and lost some equity. Would I have saved 2 bets? No ... the chance of the queen gives me some back, but I certainly saved one bet - that's one hour's work. Incidentally, when I folded, he showed me AA. | ||
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