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Server Time: 10/11/2008 6:23:47 AM PACIFIC |
 Slow play hold'em, when?, Tumble Weed, 22. Dec 2003 07:27 | ||
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| I'm new to hold'em poker and on line poker. I've played seven card stud all my life. In my travels through the on line world of poker and hold'em particularly, some things do not translate very well from seven card stud to hold'em and some things are just fatal. Slow playing is one of them. It took me a while to learn you will get beat very often by draw hands if you slow play seven stud style in hold'em and my solution was just don't. This solved getting beat by draws(except those playing every hand and going to the river everytime), but it seems I became predictable and my pots were becoming smaller. Always on the look out to improve my game, if you look carefully on the flop, are aware of your oppenents, you can slow play. You still have to be careful, but there are opportunties. Any advice on slow play and hold'em would be appreciated. One other note, seven card stud just doesn't come across to me on the internet like it does in the b&m. Hold'em seems to plays both well on the internet and in the b&m. Any opinions? | ||
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| Re: Slow play hold'em, when?, mkpoker, 22. Dec 2003 08:17 | ||
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| I have strong opinions on this subject (developed mostly by watching my biggest hands take small pots), but there's an important preface first: THIS ADVICE APPLIES ONLY TO TYPICAL PASSIVE LOW-LIMIT GAMES, where 75% or more of all hands reach showdown. Higher limit games are quite different, I think. BUT, in LL, I think the profitable play is almost NEVER to slowplay. The overwhelming weakness in LL players is that they take mediocre hands too far (i.e. they call too much). By checking instead of betting, you're helping them play correctly! In many cases if you bet instead of check, they'd call anyway. I say, play to their weakness...give LL players maximum opportunity to make bad calls. It's true that by slowplaying, you MIGHT help your opponent pick up a 2nd best hand or induce a bluff on the river...but IMO, from a long-term EV perspective, these successful slowplays will be outweighed by the money lost from bad calls you never gave your opponent the chance to make. If you do slowplay, it's critical to do so only when there's virtually no chance of being outdrawn. For example, you hold JJ and flop J62 rainbow...go ahead and slowplay if you must. But if the 62 were suited, a bet is mandatory. | ||
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| Re: Slow play hold'em, when?, LKP, 22. Dec 2003 10:40 | ||
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| I think it depends on the limit, and the players at the table (loose/tight, aggressive/passive). I would read Winning Low Limit Hold'em by Lee Jones for a detailed discussion on the following concepts for low limit tables: In low limit tables, it is very common for mediocre players to pay to see the flop with drawing hands. Not just suited connectors, but any two suits, any two connectors, any two cards with one, two, or three gaps, an A and any other card, a K and any other card, etc etc. Due to that, the overwhleming majority of flops may have given someone a draw that can beat you. First, you don't want to give anyone a free card. Second, most of the time these poorer players will still pay for a draw even if the pot odds are horrible. Try check-raising in these circumstances if you can. It may not serve to drive that many people out of the pot, but you are forcing them to pay way more than the pot odds justify. In the long term, forcing them to make that mistake will give you an advantage. Slow-play is designed to represent a hand that is not as good as what you are truly holding. Most of the time, as sad as it is, most low limit players aren't paying attention to what you're trying to represent at all. It's not uncommon at all to see someone raising and raising and raising with their straight, when there are 4 suits on the board. They will not be scared by your aggressive betting, so why slow-play? The only possible thing I could think of that would be advantageous would be to call on the flop and raise on the turn when the bets are doubled. Raising on the flop would often make them check and call on the turn instead of bet into you. However, in NL play, slow-playing is much more profitable. Here, the game is all about table image and all about reading what people have at the current time. Here, representing an inferior hand may cause someone to overvalue theirs or attempt to bluff you. You're still taking a risk if you have a set and there is a draw possibilty, but the risk may be worth it. You can also definitely slow-play a monster like the nut flush if the board isn't paired. Here, it all depends. Your table image, the table image of your opponents, how many people are in the hand, the pot size, everyone's stack sizes, the strength of your hand, draw potential : there are so many factors involved. I personally would rather win a small pot than lose a big pot, so I'm at least inclined to charge heavily for draws. I would never be totally consistent with your patterns. Keep your opponents guessing. Sometimes slow-play, sometimes don't. | ||
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| Re: Slow play hold'em, when?, Raodwarior, 22. Dec 2003 13:50 | ||
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| Ahh another of my brothers in the fold...recycled 7 stud players that is. Not sure where your at but out here ever since the WPT you couldn't find a stud game with a GPS unit. If you are playing the LL games online which is where I started, 4Poker gave some excellent advise. About the only time I will slow play is if I flop the nuts, and I know a bet will cllear most of the table. Now if someone raises and clears it then I may pop him but usually will string it for all its worth. Unless I am at a table where raises get no respect I will pop it and fast play it. | ||
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