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Server Time: 1/8/2009 5:17:00 AM PACIFIC |
 I can't win online anymore., hokie95, 21. Dec 2003 15:54 | ||
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| When I first started playing, I only played online because I didn't have a choice here in Pittsburgh. Then I started travelling and going on vacations near poker rooms and played live. Now, I can't play online anymore. I am bored. I've tried switching from limit to NL. From ring games to SNGs. Doesn't matter. I get impatient and try to "make a move." The move I usually succeed at is sliding my chips to someone else. But live, I am engaged. I'm excited and watching everything. I get reads on people and I play 200% better. Anything I can do? Or do I just need a break? OR, I could just blame the site as being rigged!!! (That was a little joke.) | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., Barry T, 22. Dec 2003 01:58 | ||
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| Hi. I have a student witht he same problem. After a period of on-line play, he gets impatient, bored or whatever,and starts to crave action. So he gives it, regardless of the situation. My suggestion (which may still damage his bankroll -- or yours) is to play a regular game until you are bored. Then play short-handed. I promise if you play 3-handed, you will not be bored! You will be in action all the time, and learn judgement that is very important. Unfortunately, I cannot promise you will win, so play at a limit you can stand large swings in (you will have huge swings in SH play regardless of your skill). BarryT | ||
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| Hold'em Pre-Flop Decision Look-Up Tables, Harold Pierce, Jr., 22. Dec 2003 04:11 | ||
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| You should not all be discourged. For Hold'em, my detailed and highly-accurate computations have found that you will fold 85% of the time pre-flop. You have to be patience. If you would likea copy of my brand new Texas Hold'em Pre-Flop Decision Look-up Tables, send your e-mail address to: 74563.30@compuserve.com. -=-MousEars "Quack" is "What" in Duck Language! | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., Bart Mann, 22. Dec 2003 12:53 | ||
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| Yo hokie - I feel your pain. Which is ironic, because at UB.com we used to get stuck at the same tables once in awhile. When I first bought in at UB I ran my bankroll up to 3.5X in what seemed like a heartbeat. Then I got bored, because online poker is just too easy to play. You can log in whenever you want and play whatever you want--any game, any limit, any structure. I started taking it for granted, not paying as much attention and eventually lost my entire bankroll as quickly as I made it--along with two additional deposits . . . Anyway, I finally quit going online all together and started returning to the local B&M. What a difference! To me, peeking at the first two hole cards, stacking up your chips after a big win, downing 6 Diet Cokes an hour and studying the expressions and mannerisms of opponents are all part of the fun in Poker, and the online version offers none of that for me. To me, B&M poker vs. online poker is like comparing the Super Bowl to the Pro Bowl. Sure, they're both football . . . but only one of them is REALLY football. The other is someone else's cheesy, half-assed attempt at re-creating football for the purposes of wasting your time and tricking you into spending your money. If you're anywhere within 90 minutes of a poker room, spend the extra gas money and drive to it. The reason you're not winning online anymore is because it's not FUN for you online anymore. Believe me, you're not alone. - Bart - | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., hokie95, 22. Dec 2003 15:42 | ||
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| Barry and Bart, You are both on the money. (Harold....whhhhaaaaaa???? It ain't my starting requirements, I assure you.) Live play is sooooo much better than online, IMHO. There's something about the atmosphere that I love about B&M play that just isn't there online. Watching the guy in the hat and sunglasses grab his chips when the A comes on the flop. Or when the old lady raises after the third flush card hits on the turn and just knowing she's sitting on AQ, because the K is on board. Or putting a guy on tilt by asking him why he plays that junk in that position when it's clear to everyone at the table he was beat from the getgo (after he gets rivered on a 2 outer). (I actually did that once and still feel kinda bad about it....) It ain't the same. Thanks guys. Now I have a decision to make. -Dave p.s. Bart Mann -- I remember you. Give me back my money! | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., roy, 22. Dec 2003 15:52 | ||
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| Dude, visit the pokerheadquarters.com tips for online poker playing | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., hokie95, 22. Dec 2003 17:31 | ||
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| Stop spamming this board. Your website sucks and blows like a jet engine. | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., Bart Mann, 22. Dec 2003 18:19 | ||
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| Hok - I'd gladly give you your money back, but unfortunately I lost it. You'll have to get it back from the guy who called a three-bet preflop with 85 offsuit, only to catch a runner-runner straight and beat my top set. Therein lies the reason I gave up the online life . . . I like the list of B&M favorites. Here are a few of mine: 1) The obviously new to poker 19-year old who, when a four-to-a-flush hits the board, asks the dealer "How much can I bet?" 2) The thirty-something, washed-out blond ex-housewife turned addicted gambler who takes it upon herself to be "table monitor," and rats you out to the dealer any time you accidentally take chips off of the table. 3) The sixty-something Skipper look-alike that demands you show your mucked hand to the entire table every time you show a neighbor your cards. 4) The half-in-the-bag table captain who can't resist proclaiming "Why did you call that bet? I knew he had it!" every time someone else loses a showdown. 5) The guy with the beard and glasses who would rather read a racing form than the board, but can't figure out why he's losing. 6) Guys who regularly blind straddle. 7) The players (and there are literally hundreds of them) who spew a steady stream of "Doyle-isms" and other poker phrases that include, but are not limited to the following: - "All you can ask is that you get all your chips in the middle when you have the best of it." - "I figured I had the pot odds to call the bet." - "That was a post-oak bluff." - "2/7 offsuit is the worst statistical hand in poker." - "I knew you had me beat, but I had to look you up." Keep up the fight! - Bart - | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore (favorite characters)., hokie95, 23. Dec 2003 05:20 | ||
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| You can add my wife to your list, because she always cracks up the whole table because she has an inexplicable inability to bet more than three chips in one hand. So, if she wants to bet six, it's a two-handed maneuver, with three chips in both hands. After a while, the table starts to gently mock her, with bets like "2 twice" and "1 twice" for 4 and 2 respectively. hElarios. Also, please add this guy to the very tiptop of my list of favorite B&M characters: The middle-aged guy to your left who keeps asking you why you fold so much and "helpfully" telling you that you should stay in more, because "you're getting 5 more cards, and any two can win." I love that guy. I always want to buy him a drink. Sometimes I do, just to be nice. You know, because he's helping me understand the game better. A really good dealer who is paying attention will usually crack up laughing right around then. | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore (favorite characters)., Denver, 23. Dec 2003 11:05 | ||
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| Bart, I got one for your list of profiles: The group of 2-3 twenty-somethings that seem to be having some sort of competition on who can work in the most quotes from "Rounders" during the session. These guys will attempt at least one or two maniacal stone cold bluffs during the session and are only concerned with the +EV they're getting from the free drinks. (Full disclosure: I was this guy my first trip to the B&M, before finding UPF -- and I had a good time paying to play, but I enjoy winning $$ more) | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore (favorite characters)., Bart Mann, 23. Dec 2003 11:33 | ||
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| Damn, it should be mandatory that they mark this table with a big red flag, so it's easier for me to find it. Unfortunately, we don't get a lot of triples or even pairs of players at the local B&M here. They use a first-come board system, and it's rare (unless they start a new table) that more than one seat will open up at a table at a time. If I go with someone, we usually end up at opposite ends of the room. You're right--if I hear "Jonny F'ing Chan" uttered one more time at a poker table, I'm gonna lose it. | ||
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| Here's where I have the crow du jour., hokie95, 7. Jan 2004 06:12 | ||
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| on 22. Dec 2003 15:42 hokie95 wrote: >(Harold....whhhhaaaaaa???? It ain't my starting > requirements, I assure you.) > Ok, so maybe it was. I took some time off. Studied some more, practiced with Wilson's TTHE and now I have been winning again. I think I was a little loose. So, I'll have the crow du jour with a side of humble pie, please. | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., GoodBoyTim, 11. Jan 2004 13:56 | ||
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| I completely agree with you about not having anymore fun. I am 2 hours away from the nearest Poker room, I spend the time and the energy and the money to get my poker butt over there. Online poker really is no longer fun after playing for about 8 months. Thanks fort he great thread. You have a fellow poker friend here...! Thanks for reading! Have a great day! Tim The Good Boy | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., LJH, 22. Dec 2003 18:32 | ||
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| HOKIE95, YOU HAVE FOUND OUT WHY PLAYER LIKE ME WILL ONLY PLAY LIVE. IT IS GREAT FUN TO SEE AND BE SEEN; TO THROW BARBS AND GET THEM FROM OTHERS; TO MEET PEOPLE; TO LAUGH OUT LOUD. WHO WANTS TO SIT IN THEIR LITTLE DENS OR HOLES IN THE WALL, WITH THEIR MACHINES IN THEIR HANDS, AND TALKING TO THEMSELVES. GOOD FOR YOU TO GET A REAL LIFE. LJH | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., Palinya, 23. Dec 2003 08:27 | ||
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| Do you have Poker Tracker? If not get it! Download your hand histories as you play and load them into Poker Tracker. After you fold which you should be doing most of the time, go through some hand histories at the table and replay them to yourself. Make notes from this. This is great because you can see your opponents cards and see how they are betting them. This does a lot of things for your game: 1. You get an understanding of your opponent and what they bet, limp, slow-play with and in what positions. 2. It gives you something to concentrate on and actively taking notes keeps you from getting bored and keeps you focused on the game. 3. It keeps you from getting frustrated when you are getting bad cards. It is much easier to fold the mediocre decisions when you know that you have hands to analyze and you won't be sitting around bored. 4. Over time you get a lot of good information on your opponents and the ones you see all the time get that much easier to read. While on-line poker is faster than B&M, it has a lot less to look at and focus on. Because you aren't in a poker environment, it can be very difficult to concentrate and keep focus on the game. I found that studying previous hands and taking notes was the best way to keep myself focused on the game. | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., Bart Mann, 23. Dec 2003 09:13 | ||
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| I can't speak for hokie, the originator of this thread, but I'd rather shave the back of my legs with a cheese grater while chewing on a wad of tinfoil than use a software application to analyze my play between hands. For me, at that point I've become more of an Actuary than a poker player. I have a sure-fire way of finding out of I'm playing too loose--I start to run out of money. And if I want to kow how other playes are playing, I simply commit it to memory. To me, these are the differences between B&M and online poker that make me want to cancel my high-speed connection. I realize others feel differently, and I absolutely respect the opinion of anyone who disagrees. But when people are running simulations, taking electronic notes, using PokerStove to calculate odds and using PokerTracker to analyze hand histories--all while they are playing--to me it ceases to be poker. OK, I'm climbing off of my soapbox now. - Bart - | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., Palinya, 23. Dec 2003 09:40 | ||
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| I agree. It's not poker. It's internet poker and it's a different animal. Getting a read on someone online is more difficult than in B&M. You can't put a face to them. You can't see their actions. In B&M the people at the table can be their for hours. Online 75% of the table can change every 15 minutes. Sometimes the only read you have on them is based on notes that you took from 10 days ago where they were on a table with you for 20 minutes... and you know they will be gone in another 20 minutes. Without using these tools, you will just start to get a read on them and they are gone. Since you can't put a face to them, you won't be able to remember them in two weeks when they show up again for another 20 minutes. Treating internet poker the same way you treat a B&M game is a mistake in my opinion. Your opponents are using these tools... well some of them anyway. | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., Palinya, 23. Dec 2003 09:45 | ||
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| on 23. Dec 2003 09:13 Bart Mann wrote: > > I can't speak for hokie, the originator of this thread, but I'd rather shave the back of > my legs with a cheese grater while chewing on a wad of tinfoil than use a software > application to analyze my play between hands. Poker Tracker doesn't analyze your play for you. It simply allows you to replay a hand and gives statistical data on your opponents. You can use it to analyze your play but during a game, I don't analyze my play, I analyze my opponents play in order to get a read on them. In B&M there are all sorts of ways to get reads on your opponents. In internet play you miss a lot of that and this just offers a way to try and fill that gap. | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., hokie95, 23. Dec 2003 10:52 | ||
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| Well, I certainly have a less visceral reaction to the use of pokertracker et al. to improve my game. I downloaded it and imported some hands to check it out, but I am a UB guy, and it is a real major pain in the butt to use with UB. And, there is no replay provision in UB. And, you don't get to see what everyone had in the UB version. (Unless I am doing something wrong. Am I?) But, more to the point of this, I think the Palinya/Bart Mann debate (for lack of a better word) is a clear illustration of what is fueling my discontent. I can pretty easily pay attention to everything while I am playing live. Or to most. Do I miss stuff? Sure. Do I see a lot? Yup. Online, I can't even get myself to watch if 46teywu34 plays a lot of hands, much less which hands from what position. I think Palinya is telling us that pokertracker does this for you. Well, that's the part I like live. I like *knowing* that UNLV t-shirt guy has a flush draw because he raised the flop bet and smooth called the turn when a diamond didn't hit. Why do I *know* this? I dunno. But I do. Something about the way he threw his chips out there conjured a memory from 1:15 a.m., 3 hours ago, when he did the same thing with his wrist, maybe. Online seems to be more of a theoretical game. "Well, he didn't raise in late position with a hand that merited a raise on the flop which wasn't that big a flop for a limp-in hand but he quickly called a turn bet. Two diamonds out there, he was probably trying a free card play that didn't work. No diamond on the river and he folded. Hmmmm.... wonder if he looks disgusted? No way to tell." Well, at least this is an interesting discussion. | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., Palinya, 23. Dec 2003 11:40 | ||
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| on 23. Dec 2003 10:52 hokie95 wrote: > I downloaded it and imported some hands to check it out, but I am a UB guy, and it is a > real major pain in the butt to use with UB. Yeah it doesn't work great with UB since you can't bulk download hand histories in the same way > And, you > don't get to see what everyone had in the UB version. (Unless I am doing something wrong. Am > I?) You don't get to see what everyone had with Party Pokers hand histories either. But it will show you what they had if they ended up showing the hand at the end. The end result is that you can usually see how one or two people at the table played the hand and maybe make a useful note from it. > I can pretty easily pay attention to everything while I am playing live. Or to most. Do I > miss stuff? Sure. Do I see a lot? Yup. > > Online, I can't even get myself to watch if 46teywu34 plays a lot of hands, much less which > hands from what position. I think Palinya is telling us that pokertracker does this for you. > Well, that's the part I like live. I had the same problem. It is so easy online to just zone out and play on auto-pilot without really having to pay attention or think about the hands. There are so many distractions at home and you only have a tiny poker window with limited information about the game to try and hold your attention. This is where Poker Tracker can be useful. Let's say you are in late position with AJo and there is a pre-flop raise to you and maybe a couple limpers. Then you look at the raisers stats and see he plays 14% of the flops and you click on your notes and you have never seen him pre-flop raise with less than a AQs. You can feel pretty good about the fold. On the other hand if the pre-flop raiser has seen 75% of the flops and pre-flop raised 32% and then you look at your notes and you've seen him raise any Ax or Kx you can cold call this bet with more confidence than you could without that information. So the stats it gives are useful in that sense. Also replaying hands is the best way I find to make notes since once you fold a hand on-line it is really easy to miss what was going on after the fact. A losing hand only flashes the cards momentarily and its off to the next hand. It can be very easy to miss especially if you folded pre-flop. Just last night I saw a hand where an A came on the flop and it was checked to the late position who bet it through to the river and lost. I was was distracted by something momentarily and I didn't pay attention to what he ended up showing largely because I was out of the hand. 5 minutes later, I was going through the hand histories replaying them and since he showed his hand at the end, I could see his hand from the beginning on the replay. He played a garbage hand and then tried to represent the A when nobody bet it. I didn't pick up on it when he initially did it but it was pretty hard to miss on the replay. I could see he didn't have the A and he didn't even have a draw. Well this made for a very useful note later on when I got pocket Kings and he tried to buy the pot when an A flopped. Had I not replayed that hand I probably would have folded my Kings when he bet the flop and turn. | ||
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| Re: I can't win online anymore., docholiday420, 31. Jan 2004 16:45 | ||
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| I'm glad to see bart and Pokie feel the same frustrations I feel. I posted a similar post before I saw this one. Online play is just an insult to real poker. I can't even begin to play hold em online. So i tried seven card because ti is more of the cards then players. However people tend to call so much easier like it is some sort of video game. I have lost major hands that I had trips or a flush by fifth street but people don't fold no matter how much I bet or raise. They end up catching the river and beating me. I feel online all comes down to just the river. Whoever it helps and does it help anyone, because people are always calling. And likeu guys said it takes away the people aspect. It takes away something that has been a very important toll for poker players for years A poker face, what the hell does that matter online. peope who u could probably read like abook at a B&M can make a killing online. Online benefits the novices, not the ntermediates. The benefits people show for the online I can counter. People say u play more hands, how does that automatically mean you will win more. It can mean more losses, more bad beats. Online you play more then one table. That can be counterprodctive, u can be up 20 in one table and down 15 on another. That big win you just got means nothing. Also it takes away attnetion from all the players. Ur run can end faster than possible. I have been on runs before and people have either changed tables, or left the table to me and just two other people, that would never happen at a BM. It's harder to regulate ur games. I play expecting to win 40 BB a week. i aim for eight five hour sessions, so If I'm up fve big bets I take off, made my quota. However online u can be up that fast leave, but then come back cuz ur bored three hours later. There are no time restricts which can cause u to play way more often. Bottom line u can't read people, and I trust cards dealt b a human in front of me, more then some computer program. All those tools likepoker tracker and notes, are things not neccessary for a poker player. It's thngs u need because of online. A real poker player can size up who he is playing agianst within 1/2 an hor and most of them will stay there long enough for what u learn to pay off for u. It can also get very addictive and u canplay too muh. Its too much of a temptation, u can play when ur tired, not sharp enough play. Ur not supposed to judge a player by his looks but it can always help. People can bluff eaiser its easier to lie over thephone then face to face. These people bluff by just clicking a button, online u better be prepared to look me in the eye and makeme think u have something. I jst think i'm gonna stick to the BM and win the real way. | ||
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