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Server Time: 8/30/2008 9:49:03 AM PACIFIC |
 K3o :), Angel, 19. Dec 2003 23:17 | ||
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| Ran into this hand yesterday at a 6-handed $20/$40 HE game at the Bike. Most everyone left is stuck (except for me - just arrived after a nap) and the desperation to get even is palatable as the play deteriorates faster than the game is. Every pot is being raised and often 3-bet although there are few caps - something that will change in another 10 minutes. I find myself in the BB with K3o when UTG goes all-in for $30 and everyone calls. I'm looking at a pot of $170 and am getting 17:1 on a call - but K3o? Normally I don't like the call anyway - even despite the great odds. I'm looking to flop trip 3's or two pair and even then the reverse implied odds can be vicious. The hand has to be played so cautiously after the flop if you do catch a piece of it that I feel you don't give up anything by throwing this trash away. I made the call though specifically because the players at the table were seeing their opportunity to get even vanish (particularly with one more player all-in, this could be their last chance) and I thought that the implied odds would be much higher than normal if I did catch a miracle flop. I'm curious as to others take on this hand. Do you ever lay the hand down or is 17:1 sufficient reward to play K3o out of position? Why? | ||
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| Re: K3o :), WilliamS, 20. Dec 2003 07:16 | ||
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| Angel, Let me start off by saying you are one of my favorite posters on this site and I can't hold a candle to you on poker knowledge, but here is my take on the situation anyway :-) I think YOU have to call the other 10 bucks in this particular situation, but a lot of us shouldn't. If the raise was from any position except UTG then I think a fold is defendable, but since you are the last to act, given the pot odds, you have to chunk in the last 10 dollars. Now, the key to this call is your postflop play. An experienced player like yourself can most assuredly play this situation profitably; however, there is a good chance that less experienced players are going to lose money seeing the flop in this situation by pushing a marginal hand with bad position too far. Top pair ISN'T what this hand needs. It really needs a miracle flop with 2 pair being the minimum you can comfortably play (with the possibility of trouble on that hand depending on the rest of the board). A couple 3s on the flop is what would make me comfortable, or even better A3X all of your K's suit giving you bottom pair and a 4 flush to the nut draw. Or, a player has to have an excellent handle on his opponents and be able to take the pot away from the other players, however with a player being all-in I don't think that possibility can even be considered when deciding to play this hand. A person has to be able to play post flop extremely well to make this a profitable situation even with the incredible pot odds being given to you on the start. I think this is one of those situations where the winning player seperates himself from the losing player. It is a situation where an excellent player can take advantage of a situation with a poor hand and turn a profit, but a poor player can take a situation with potential and be way worse off than if he had left the situation alone. Thats my take Will | ||
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| Re: K3o :), Formless, 20. Dec 2003 07:50 | ||
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| I call. The immediate odds are nice, but given the texture of the game you describe your implied odds seem juicy. You are shorthanded and have a king, not exactly loaded for bear but you have a reasonable shot at this. I just ran a sim with K3o vs. 5 random hands hot n cold to the river, K3o doesn't quite win it's share, but I still call. | ||
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| Re: K3o :), Roy Cooke, 20. Dec 2003 10:23 | ||
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| I make the call if I am you....It appears to me that you play well enough to not let the reverse implied odds get too much the best of you...I think calls like this can be made if you can read well and play well enough to avoid many of the traps that hands like this present! I like your thinking! Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 19. Dec 2003 23:17 Angel wrote: > Ran into this hand yesterday at a 6-handed $20/$40 HE game at the Bike. Most > everyone left is stuck (except for me - just arrived after a nap) and the > desperation to get even is palatable as the play deteriorates faster than the > game is. Every pot is being raised and often 3-bet although there are few caps > - something that will change in another 10 minutes. I find myself in the BB > with K3o when UTG goes all-in for $30 and everyone calls. I'm looking at a pot > of $170 and am getting 17:1 on a call - but K3o? > > Normally I don't like the call anyway - even despite the great odds. I'm > looking to flop trip 3's or two pair and even then the reverse implied odds can > be vicious. The hand has to be played so cautiously after the flop if you do > catch a piece of it that I feel you don't give up anything by throwing this > trash away. I made the call though specifically because the players at the > table were seeing their opportunity to get even vanish (particularly with one > more player all-in, this could be their last chance) and I thought that the > implied odds would be much higher than normal if I did catch a miracle flop. > > > I'm curious as to others take on this hand. Do you ever lay the hand down or > is 17:1 sufficient reward to play K3o out of position? Why? | ||
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| Re: K3o :), shorn, 22. Dec 2003 05:35 | ||
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| This is a lot closer than it may appear between calling and folding due to the presence of the all-in player...he gets to see the end regardless and you can't win any more from him. But, getting 17-1 I think you need to call the $10 and hope for a great flop. Actually being in the BB is an advantage to you here as if you get a great flop you can lead or try for a checkraise, but if you get an inferior flop (say only a King), you can check and in effect "act last" once it goes around. As long as you can get awy from the hand if you don't flop hard, then I think long run (despite the all-in player), it is worth a call. | ||
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