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Server Time: 8/30/2008 9:52:16 AM PACIFIC |
 How dealer tokes effect your profits, blisterfoot, 19. Dec 2003 12:17 | ||
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| I've got my first real B&M trip coming up, and I've been told that standard etiquette for dealer tokes in low-limit games is $1 per pot won. Is that right? Are you really expected to tip every time you win a pot (bigger than a couple BBs)? What if you're losing for the session, are you still expected to tip when you win a pot? I know dealers work hard and should be tipped somewhat, but that just seems RIDICULOUS to me. Sure, you might say that a $1 toke is only 3%-5% of a typical low-limit pot. But don't forget that for every $40 pot you win, you've probably invested $35 in losing pots, and nobody is tipping you when you lose those pots! Think about it -- even if you're killing the game at 3BB/hr, in a 2/4 game that's only $12/hr. If you've won 2-3 pots in that hour, you'd be tipping out $2-$3, or 17-25% of your profits. Add a 10% rake, and you're talking 27-35%! That's outrageous! When I play craps or other casino games, I wait until the end of my session, and if I'm up a significant amount, I'll tip out 2-5% of my winnings. But it would be ridiculous for me to tip out that amount EVERY TIME I won a bet! Why should it be any different at the poker tables? Someone please explain this to me. I don't want to be the only A-HOLE at the table not tipping, but... | ||
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| Re: How dealer tokes effect your profits, ekim2000, 19. Dec 2003 12:37 | ||
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| Keep in mind that their salaries are almost completely made up of tokes. And you will be viewed as an A-hole if you do not tip. It is part of the poker economy. Do a search here on the subject on this forum, there is plenty of info. | ||
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| Re: How dealer tokes effect your profits, 4 POKER, 19. Dec 2003 12:57 | ||
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| I disagree with that. If a dealer is sitting in the box and making lots of mistakes or if he is not running the game smoothly and effeciently, then why should I support his livelihood. I'm aware that the majority of their salary is based on tips, but, it works both ways in my opinion. I play for a living. If and when a dealer is dealing in my game and he is making constant mistakes or if he's just being rude or what have you, then he is then cutting into my livelihood. If he's a dealer who is just starting out perhaps, then yes, I would definitely cut him some slack on the mechanical aspects. But if that same dealer has a bad disposition, then I don't care how new he is to the poker world, he will not get tipped by me. The good dealers I tip all the time and I usually tip $1, sometimes a bit more if the dealer is super professional, but not because I may have just won a big pot. 4P- | ||
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| Re: How dealer tokes effect your profits, ekim2000, 19. Dec 2003 13:11 | ||
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| That was not really the question he was asking. He was referring to tips in general. If you will notice, his subject was "how dealer tokes effect your profits". I agree with what you said totally, but that is outside the scope of his enquiry. | ||
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| Re: How dealer tokes effect your profits, LJH, 19. Dec 2003 14:15 | ||
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| BLISTERFOOT, NO YOU DO NOT TOKE ONE DOLLAR IF YOU HAVE WON A SMALL POT. 25 OR 50 CENTS IS OKAY, AND IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE WON ALMOST NOTHING ON THAT POT OR IF YOU HAVE JUST WON THE ANTES, THEN NOTHING. LJH | ||
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| sigh..., ekim2000, 19. Dec 2003 14:27 | ||
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| Again, another person missed the topic of his post. He is not asking about tipping when the pot is small or when the dealers are bad. He is referring to the whole concept of tipping, period. And why are you posting in all caps???? | ||
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| Re: How dealer tokes effect your profits, blisterfoot, 19. Dec 2003 15:21 | ||
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| OK guys, but I agree with ekim, I think you're not really addressing the point I was trying to get at. Let me ask this--do poker dealers get a lower salary than blackjack dealers or the craps dealers, so that more of their income is based on tips? Because otherwise, it still doesn't make sense to me--nobody would ever expect you to tip 25% of your winnings to a blackjack dealer, right? It seems to me like the system would be much more reasonable if they pooled tips or something, so at the end of your session, you could tip out a reasonable % of your winnings (like at the end of a tourney, you tip 5%-10%). $1 per every $30-40 pot works out to such a huge % of your actual profits, that it just doesn't seem like a fair expectation | ||
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| Re: How dealer tokes effect your profits, ekim2000, 20. Dec 2003 00:16 | ||
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| I have no idea how other dealers in a casino are paid. But I can tell you that poker dealers are not expected to receive a higher wage(tokes) as the limits increase. The tokes should be the same in a $5-$10 game as a $40-$80 game. This is a reason it can be beneficial to move up in limits. | ||
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| Re: How dealer tokes effect your profits, KJo, 20. Dec 2003 10:49 | ||
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| Blackjack and craps dealers often make more in tips than poker even though the game they're dealing is negative expectation rather than positive, it's just a function of the nature of the game, the typical method of tipping. Keep in mind that in BJ and craps, most tips are played and won, not simply given. And no, to my understanding dealers don't make a different starting wage depending on game, most dealers are minimum wage or close employees. And people often tip more than 25% of their winnings to a BJ dealer, when they play tips while they're winning but then end up losing the session. Same goes for poker. Eli on 19. Dec 2003 15:21 blisterfoot wrote: > OK guys, but I agree with ekim, I think you're not really addressing the point I was > trying to get at. Let me ask this--do poker dealers get a lower salary than blackjack > dealers or the craps dealers, so that more of their income is based on tips? Because > otherwise, it still doesn't make sense to me--nobody would ever expect you to tip 25% of > your winnings to a blackjack dealer, right? > > It seems to me like the system would be much more reasonable if they pooled tips or > something, so at the end of your session, you could tip out a reasonable % of your > winnings (like at the end of a tourney, you tip 5%-10%). $1 per every $30-40 pot works > out to such a huge % of your actual profits, that it just doesn't seem like a fair > expectation | ||
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| Re: How dealer tokes effect your profits, Mark Barnett II, 22. Dec 2003 10:08 | ||
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| i did the math in a post a few months ago about what a dealer would make if every pot the dealer got a dollar *roughly* i tip $.50 a winning hand *unless micro pot* but that has more to do with karma than anything else tipping much more than $.50 and your right its gonna eat into your profits. on the sharing idea if im not mistaken at least in vegas tips are shared its a catch 22, pay for good dealers *as in the money is enough to make the good ones stay* but at the expense of your bankroll, what i have heard from most pros is just assume its part of the overhead like the rake and the tips to the waitresses. Rule #1 of Poker Circumstances alter cases Rule #2 NEVER forget rule #1 | ||
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| Re: How dealer tokes effect your profits, kennycatkiller, 22. Dec 2003 22:40 | ||
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| you are correct that poker dealers are paid little more than min wage by the casino ($6.15/hr?). so, most of their earnings are from tokes. and, you are right that proper etiquette calls for the winner of a hand to toke the dealer, but the amount is ENTIRELY up to the player. in the low limit games played in las vegas (3-6 or 4-8), the rake is usually 5% to a max of $3 (some houses $4), and many, if not most, rake an additional $1 for the jackpot pool. now, suppose (in the 4-8 game with blinds of only 1 and 2), you are dealt AA and raise to $6; only the BB calls the additional $4. You bet $4 on fhe flop, $8 on the turn, and $8 on the river, and the BB calls all the way. you win and the dealer pushes you $49, but you, yourself have put in $26, so your win is only $23. most of the players with whom i play at boulder station would toke $1, but i think that is excessive and would toke only 50 cents (for poor dealers) or 75 cents (for good dealers). note that i am considered "tight." now, most hold-em games put out 35 hands per hour (41 if they use the new automated shuffling machines). so, if a dealer made $1 on every hand, he/she would earn about $41 to $47 per hour or, for an 1800 hour work year, from $73,800 to $84,600 per year! now dealing poker ain't brain surgery, so i think $1 per hand is excessive. yes, dealers, i realize that you may not work 1800 hours per year, but, when i worked, i sure as hell worked a lot more than that and never earned anywhere near that much. so, blisterfoot, toking is entirely up to you! kennycatkiller | ||
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| Re: How dealer tokes effect your profits, ekim2000, 23. Dec 2003 07:49 | ||
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| You are referring to the "amount" correct? | ||
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| Re: How dealer tokes effect your profits, KJo, 23. Dec 2003 23:57 | ||
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| Don't forget when doing the math that dealers typically get 20 minute breaks after every hour, so it isn't a full 8 hour day working (not to mention the time between tables when pushing), and in most card rooms the dealers have to tip out the chip runners (where they exist). I highly, highly doubt you'll find poker dealers out there making the kind of money you suggest. Eli on 22. Dec 2003 22:40 kennycatkiller wrote: > you are correct that poker dealers are paid little more than min wage by the casino > ($6.15/hr?). so, most of their earnings are from tokes. > and, you are right that proper etiquette calls for the winner of a hand to toke the > dealer, but the amount is ENTIRELY up to the player. > in the low limit games played in las vegas (3-6 or 4-8), the rake is usually 5% to a > max of $3 (some houses $4), and many, if not most, rake an additional $1 for the > jackpot pool. > now, suppose (in the 4-8 game with blinds of only 1 and 2), you are dealt AA and > raise to $6; only the BB calls the additional $4. You bet $4 on fhe flop, $8 on the > turn, and $8 on the river, and the BB calls all the way. you win and the dealer > pushes you $49, but you, yourself have put in $26, so your win is only $23. most of > the players with whom i play at boulder station would toke $1, but i think that is > excessive and would toke only 50 cents (for poor dealers) or 75 cents (for good > dealers). note that i am considered "tight." > now, most hold-em games put out 35 hands per hour (41 if they use the new automated > shuffling machines). so, if a dealer made $1 on every hand, he/she would earn about > $41 to $47 per hour or, for an 1800 hour work year, from $73,800 to $84,600 per year! > now dealing poker ain't brain surgery, so i think $1 per hand is excessive. yes, > dealers, i realize that you may not work 1800 hours per year, but, when i worked, i > sure as hell worked a lot more than that and never earned anywhere near that much. > so, blisterfoot, toking is entirely up to you! > kennycatkiller | ||
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