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Server Time: 12/1/2008 9:13:22 PM PACIFIC |
 Posting on the button, bigtizzle, 19. Dec 2003 01:29 | ||
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| Hey all - I just came back from a trip to Capitol Casino in Sacramento, playing 3/6 hold 'em. I'm down 50 on the night, but I'm proud of the outcome because I don't think I've ever had a night with worse cards. If I could have picked up any two cards to a straight it would have been a miracle. But I digress. The reason for this post is to ask if anyone has ever played with the posting of a blind on the button. What a crock of horsesh$%^t that is. When I've got frozen cards and I'm being forced to pay almost $14/hr. to play, there's no way I'm gonna come out ahead. The question is, do you think it's possible to play in those games profitably at all, or will the blinds just devour me if I play too tight? I was playing my usual strategy in the loose environment, but I only won about 4 pots all night, and the rest just got blinded off. Anyways, thanks in advance to any responses. - Big Todd | ||
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| Sorry for the multiple post., bigtizzle, 19. Dec 2003 01:30 | ||
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| I wish they would fix that "undeliverable" message! | ||
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| Re: Posting on the button, shorn, 19. Dec 2003 05:19 | ||
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| I take it you mean that you are forced to post a third blind on the button? That seems like a lot to overcome to me. | ||
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| Re: Posting on the button, WilliamS, 19. Dec 2003 06:34 | ||
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| I may be way off base here, but as long as the rake structure remains the same, that game should be just as beatable as a normal game with a few strategy changes. -Obviously with an extra blind the game should be played looser, both to help you overcome the high price of the blinds and because the pot is now offering a higher price for your hand. -Putting your opponents on hands are going to be tougher in that game due to the extra blind. So, in unraised pots I would imagine a player should play a pretty strict, math oriented, ABC game. Call with the pot odds, fold if you don't. -I would assume big face cards will lose value and suited connectors would probably play well in that game. If a player has a premium big card hand and there was a raise in front I would guess a reraise to try and shut out all the blinds would be the way to go. -Lots of suck outs in that game I would imagine, but probably the pot will be laying a decent price for a lot of those off the wall draws. -Expect a high variation and extremely tight play will probably lose money at this game. I have never played in that game so I probably shouldn't even be replying to this post, but I am interested in what you guys think of those ideas Will | ||
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| Re: Posting on the button, shorn, 19. Dec 2003 06:55 | ||
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| I think the ideas are sound, but it still might not be enough to overcome the extra blind. Bottom line, if you aren't playing in this game against loose, passive players who will pay off when you hit, then i would search for a softer game and a different place to play. | ||
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| Re: Posting on the button, dubb42, 19. Dec 2003 11:58 | ||
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| I am fairly new to "serious" poker. I have played for along time but have just recently wanted to get better and actually care about winning. I have been reading this forum and other websites for a while and learning as much as I can. I haven't gotten any books yet, but anyway the reason I am replying here is because I don't get what the an extra blind and the rake have to do with how much you win. The rake is taken now matter what and I don't see how that would figure into the amount of money won or lost. Same thing with an extra blind, sure it might cost you a few bucks here and there but wouldn't it put more money into the pot for you also. Just wondering. Sorry for the long post it is my first and I am nervous. | ||
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| Re: Posting on the button, dubb42, 19. Dec 2003 12:11 | ||
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| Another thing, in California almost all the poker rooms (at least in norther california) have the blind on the button also. Except for Indian Casinos. | ||
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| Re: Posting on the button, shorn, 19. Dec 2003 12:25 | ||
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| No need to be nervous dubb. We are all here to learn. The reason that it is harder to beat a game with three blinds is that there are now 3 positions on the table where you are forced to put $$ into the pot BEFORE seeing any cards. This is not something that you want to do. Effectively, for every $ you win, you have invested more in the game than you otherwise would have if there were only two blinds (as you get 8 hands "free" or in 8 hands you get to willingly decide whether or not to put your chips in). So, you have more $$ at risk for the same potential profit. I agree that tere could be nights where you get great cards on the button with the extra blind and you win more. However, the odds say that those nights will happen 1 time in 10, so you will lose more proportionately OTB with an extra blind the 9 other times. I hope this helps. And welcome! Steve | ||
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| Re: Posting on the button, hokie95, 21. Dec 2003 05:36 | ||
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| I played at Bay 101 in San Jose a couple months back and they had this too. I think the easiest way to understand how this bites into your profits is to compare 2 scenarios of 10 hands, assuming a full table: In scenario 1, you post a $3 BB and a $1 SB. No post on the button. Max of $3 is taken out of every pot for a rake. You are dealt, in my hypothetical, 7-2o in every hand. Every hand is raised exactly once. So, you fold every hand, right? For 10 hands, your cost is $4. In scenario 2, you post a $3 BB and a $1 SB. AND you post $3 on the button. Same hands are dealt to you. Now it costs you $7 for every 10 hands. Remember, these are hands that are unplayable. If you all you got were playable hands on the button, it probably wouldn't matter. But, if you can rig the deck to do that, you don't need help on this issue. Also, in scenario 2, even if you are UTG and raise and everyone folds, that $3 button blind goes into the house's pocket, not yours. (I think. Someone correct me on this if I am wrong.) Make sense? | ||
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| Re: Posting on the button, Mark Barnett II, 22. Dec 2003 09:38 | ||
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| one of the above examples gives the general idea but multiply it by hundreds/thousands of times. every table rotation your investing 7 dollars regardless of your hands versus the normal 4, over time this will eat into your profits *not 3 dollars worth for sure, you have awesome position on the button* now of course if your seeing all the flops *or a very high percentage* then it wont make much if any difference but since the BB advocates playing only good starting hands it will cost you money over time Rule #1 of Poker Circumstances alter cases Rule #2 NEVER forget rule #1 | ||
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