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Server Time: 1/8/2009 6:03:45 AM PACIFIC |
 Calling small raises with small pockets in NLHE, Formless, 18. Dec 2003 17:34 | ||
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| I've never been a fan of calling even small raises with small pockets. I've always preferred to fold. Lately I'm wondering if calling a minimum raise with 22-55 is a good play in NLHE. Here is an example: $50 Party Sit & Go, early in first round, blinds 10/15, 10 players, 1K starting stack. You have 33 1 off the button. A player opens for a minumum raise 4 off the button and it's folded to you. Normally I'd fold here. (As it happens, I'm playing a S&G as I write this, just called a minimum raise in SB with 33, level 2, flopped a set, checkraised, and picked up an easy 200 strange.). I think the leverage, or implied odds that you can gain with a small set, is so huge that you want to call, even though it's a bit of a longshot to flop a set. If another player has an overpair or hits the flop, you have a good chance of doubling or even tripling up. Comments? | ||
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| Re: Calling small raises with small pockets in NLHE, Brian Starr, 18. Dec 2003 17:46 | ||
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| It might work for you, but I defintely stay away from all marginal hands in the early rounds of SnGs, I usually only play 2 or 3 hands before it gets down to 6. I like to let everyone else knock each other out at the beginning, and then I come in when it gets shorthanded and mop em up! | ||
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| Re: Calling small raises with small pockets in NLHE, Formless, 18. Dec 2003 18:54 | ||
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| Yeah, that's the way I tend to play too, but it's become too conventional. The game changes. I want to zig when they zag. They say you should always play your A game, but if you always do what you always did, then you don't grow as a player. on 18. Dec 2003 17:46 Brian Starr wrote: > It might work for you, but I defintely stay away from all marginal hands in the early > rounds of SnGs, I usually only play 2 or 3 hands before it gets down to 6. I like to > let everyone else knock each other out at the beginning, and then I come in when it > gets shorthanded and mop em up! | ||
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| Re: Calling small raises with small pockets in NLHE, jaustin, 18. Dec 2003 19:05 | ||
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| I generally play all my pairs in the early rounds if I can see the flop cheaply. Those few chips aren't going to make much of a difference later on, but if you do flop a set you can make a huge score, perhaps even double up. I think the small risk is definitely worth it. | ||
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| Re: Calling small raises with small pockets in NLHE, Aisthesis, 18. Dec 2003 20:44 | ||
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| The only thing I don't like about calling the raise here is that it doesn't look like there are going to be enough people in the hand. In principle, I think the early phase is a good time to take some risks in order to flop a hand that can win big because the blinds aren't so devastating if you miss. If I thought the pot would be multi-way, I'd call more than just the minimum raise with 33 in early tournament phase, and I might have in this case as well, but it's a little questionable whether you'll have the odds (depends a lot on the raising player as well as your own table image). Another example (can't remember whether it was tourney or ring play): I called a raise with a low pair (one other caller) and flopped my set, but the flop had no cards at all over 10. Original raiser bets pot, I raised quite a bit and he folds. After the hand he said he had AK, so he clearly did have to fold. Maybe I could have won more by just calling, but if an A or K falls, then I'd have to worry about his having high set. So, anyhow, my implied odds were less than I would have liked. So I guess my conclusion would be that it's less a question of the raise itself than of who's doing it and how many are in. If you've got someone who's going to play a highish pair hard and heavy or, in early tourney phase, someone who's playing very aggressively already, I'd go for it. I think the trick to profitability is just having some kind of indication that you really are getting those implied odds. By the way, I'm not at all saying I think your call was incorrect here, just mentioning some additional factors that might influence the decision one way or the other. | ||
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| Re: Calling small raises with small pockets in NLHE, Formless, 18. Dec 2003 21:56 | ||
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| I'm thinking about doing this when it looks like 3 or less players will see the flop. In the example I gave where I was in the SB there were 4 players on a flop of 953 rainbow, that's too many for my liking even with a sweet flop like that, so I stacked off early because I wanted to take the pot down. From an immediate pot odds perspective though, I called 30 to make around 200 strange in this hand, not exactly the odds I'm looking for in a S&G. I like fat edges. With only 1 or two opponents on the flop I can milk my hand and go for broke, but with 3+ players I think it's generally too risky. So I am actually looking for worse immediate pot odds in this situation, not better. With 3 or 4 cold-callers before me, I have to worry more about straights, flushes, and oversets if I hit my hand. | ||
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| Re: Calling small raises with small pockets in NLHE, Wren, 19. Dec 2003 07:38 | ||
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| Cloutier and McEvoy debate this in Championship NL and PL Hold'em - Cloutier prefers to fold these small pairs in the early rounds, whereas McEvoy comes in with them, sometimes for a small raise. I like to play them as well, because they're quite easy to play after the flop - no set, no bet. It's very difficult to lose a lot of money with them (unless, of course, you lose to another set or to a straight or flush that gets there). Another factor is the type of player(s) you're in the pot against. It's absolutely great if you can hit a set against a guy who will blast away all or most of his stack with AK/AQ, regardless of whether or not it has hit. With other opponents, however, it'll be difficult to pull a big pot if you do hit. All in all, I'd imagine it's probably a close decision in terms of EV whether or not to play them. on 18. Dec 2003 17:34 Formless wrote: > I've never been a fan of calling even small raises with small pockets. I've > always preferred to fold. Lately I'm wondering if calling a minimum raise with > 22-55 is a good play in NLHE. Here is an example: > $50 Party Sit & Go, early in first round, blinds 10/15, 10 players, 1K starting > stack. You have 33 1 off the button. A player opens for a minumum raise 4 off > the button and it's folded to you. Normally I'd fold here. (As it happens, I'm > playing a S&G as I write this, just called a minimum raise in SB with 33, level > 2, flopped a set, checkraised, and picked up an easy 200 strange.). > I think the leverage, or implied odds that you can gain with a small set, is so > huge that you want to call, even though it's a bit of a longshot to flop a set. > If another player has an overpair or hits the flop, you have a good chance of > doubling or even tripling up. Comments? | ||
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| Re: Calling small raises with small pockets in NLHE, Richard Martone, 19. Dec 2003 09:26 | ||
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| In ring games, play only small pairs late and no one has raise, or if the game is full of passive players and know I will not be raise, I'll try to just limp in. You never know when you'll make a set. | ||
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| Re: Calling small raises with small pockets in NLHE, Roy Cooke, 19. Dec 2003 22:45 | ||
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| Calling with small wired pairs is a good play if your opponent(s) have a lot of money in front of them and are likely to put it in with an inferior hand to a set. You are 7 1/2-1 to flop a set......Keep in mind you need to make up those odds after the flop! Also keep in mind that you might lose if you do flop a set! Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke > I've never been a fan of calling even small raises with small pockets. I've > always preferred to fold. Lately I'm wondering if calling a minimum raise with > 22-55 is a good play in NLHE. Here is an example: > $50 Party Sit & Go, early in first round, blinds 10/15, 10 players, 1K starting > stack. You have 33 1 off the button. A player opens for a minumum raise 4 off > the button and it's folded to you. Normally I'd fold here. (As it happens, I'm > playing a S&G as I write this, just called a minimum raise in SB with 33, level > 2, flopped a set, checkraised, and picked up an easy 200 strange.). > I think the leverage, or implied odds that you can gain with a small set, is so > huge that you want to call, even though it's a bit of a longshot to flop a set. > If another player has an overpair or hits the flop, you have a good chance of > doubling or even tripling up. Comments? | ||
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| Re: Calling small raises with small pockets in NLHE, JJSCOTT2, 19. Dec 2003 22:55 | ||
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| Also keep in mind that trying not to play them at Party Poker is fruitless, every time you fold one the flop will come down with your quads to make sure you play them every time. :) I love party poker conspiracy theories. | ||
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