|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 2/13/2012 5:36:38 PM PACIFIC |
 Big Slick Hand in PLHE - Did I misplay?, mroban, 17. Dec 2003 06:00 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| So I am playing in my semi-regular Pot Limit HE game (and Beigs joined us!). The following hand came up. I think I played it correctly, but I will let you guys confirm or deny that: 6 handed, I am the BB ($2-2 blinds). All fold to the Button (a fairly aggressive but not maniacal player) who raises to $6. The SB flat calls and I re-raise the pot with Big Slick (KcAd). Button calls and SB folds. Pot is now $28. I thought I would win the hand right there, and was somewhat surprised that the Button called since I put him initially on a blind steal (he often will make that play). The flop comes Jc6c5c. I have the Kc. I bet the pot (another $28) and the button beats me into the pot with a pot-reraise. There is now $84 + $84 in the pot for a huge $168 pot. Obviously he made a set. I did not have the correct odds to draw to the flush so I lay it down. He shows me his set of 6s. We rabbithunted for fun and I would have hit a red Ace on the turn and a blank on the river. So the outcome would not have been positive if I called. I do not believe I had the correct odds to call that bet. I had a 3-1 chance to make my flush (and I correctly put him on a set so I correctly was not worried about getting beat with a better flush if I got there). 1. Was my pot size raise on the flop a good play? I knew he could only raise with a set and if he only would have called (maybe with AJ and the Ac). But he would have laid that hand down preflop. So my decision was based on my read that he had some pair but not a top pair (he would have re-raised with KK or AA preflop and maybe even QQ). So I figured to have an 88% chance of winning the hand right there with a big raise and not letting him draw to a flush in case he also had AK or AQ with the Ac. 2. Should I have checked the hand and tried to read his next play? Had I checked it, he probably would have made a big bet to prevent me from drawing to the flush. I could have thrown away my hand and not done any more damage. He might have smelled a trap given the flop though. This might have been not only a more prudent play (would have given me more time to read his hand and make a decision). But there was a small chance (very small because he is aggressive and protects his hands) that he would have smelled the trap and checked it. Unfortunately, I would have picked up an A and getting away from the hand might have been harder. But it could have allowed me to make the flush. Highly unlikely though. Still, I think the check was the correct play. 3. Was my decision to throw the hand away correct? I don't think I had the correct odds to draw to a flush and I didn't have the nut flush (despite my correct read). I think this was an easy decision (although I did agonize over it for a while). Perhaps I could have made a smaller raise on the flop. But in general (especially in this game) I usually either: fold or raise the pot. By doing that (who are observant and good players) they cannot read my raises if I always raise the pot whenever I raise. In general, I like the way I played the hand even though it didnt work out. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Big Slick Hand in PLHE - Did I misplay?, grant pittman, 17. Dec 2003 09:09 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Mroban I like your post. You have raised some important issues about playing a hand out of position in pot limit poker. I generally like your decision to reraise in the BB with AK especially after the SB has called and the preflop raise came from the button who may have raised with a marginal hand. One aspect about the hand that you didn't mention was how much money the button had left. If I am contemplating a reraise and I don't have a good read on my opponent my decision will often be swayed by how deep my opponent is. If he doesn't have many chips I will reraise. If he calls, I will bet the flop no matter what comes and make him decide. However, the situation changes if we both have a lot of chips. Now I am out of position and have no idea what he holds. I would still reraise with your hand in hopes of winning the pot right there but when that doesn't work you are in a tough spot in lead position if you don't hit your hand. After the flop you had only a 2nd nut flush draw and you bet the pot. Again I don't know the chip counts but your bet is fine here. I would NEVER check this flop at this point in the hand! The reason for this is simple. If I check I would expect any worthy opponent to steal the pot from me. It would stand to reason that I would only consider checking the nut flush as a trap and all other checks would indicate that I was unsure about the flop. Don't make it this easy for your opponents!!!! Bet the flop as you did. The last question you had about the hand was whether you should have called after being raised on the flop. I like your decision to fold here. The pot contained $84 and he raised the whole pot. You would only be getting 2-1 on a worse than 4-1 shot on the turn. Your odds are much worse than this since you are only drawing to the 2nd nuts!!!! Your fold was proper. Great post Mroban. Good luck in future sessions. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Big Slick Hand in PLHE - Did I misplay?, mroban, 17. Dec 2003 11:45 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Grant: Thanks for your response. I really respect your thoughts and was glad you posted them. The answer to your question is that we both had pretty full stacks (started with about $120 in front of me, he started with about $100 in front of him). His re-raise put him allin I think (I folded before we actually counted it out). I really felt I couldn't have played the hand any better than I did, so obviously I am thrilled with your response. I don't mind losing a hand if I know I played it the right way. There was certainly no way I could have won this hand, just possibly lost a bit less. But yes, my thinking on the flop was (especially with the K flush draw) that if I check, there is no way he will check (fearing giving me a shot at a flush on the turn). So if I check (with $28 already invested) I am giving up the hand. The only way to win that hand was to hope he missed his flop and folds a huge bet. His pot sized reraise obviously told me he made a set (he would have slowplayed a flush probably) and he would have folded anything else. In general, I do not think he made such a great play even though it worked out for him. Calling a pot sized raise for another $22 when you only have $6 invested with 66? He said afterward that he put me on AK (and was correct). So he called thinking he was a slight favorite. But with a pair as low as 66, he has to be thinking that there is an equal chance I have an overpair which would make him a 4-1 underdog. So I don't think calling the raise preflop was really justified. However, I do think he played it well on the flop - even with the risk that I had the nut flush. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Big Slick Hand in PLHE - Did I misplay?, shorn, 17. Dec 2003 13:25 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Also, since he only called your re-raise preflop, it is less likely he has AJ or a big pair like AA or KK. With those he would have re-raised. He called indicating a middle pair or connestors possibly and that flop has both of those in it. I think you made a good laydown here unless you know htis guy so well that he would bluff at that flop AFTER you have shown strength twice. If you had the A of the suit, a call is more debatable, but might still be right unless he is really deep in chips and will pay you off if it hits. I find a lot of times that most players will not pay off a 4-suited board without one of the suit, so your implied odds go way down to these flushes. BTW, is this an online PL game or live? I love to play PL and would like to join sometime if you would have me. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Big Slick Hand in PLHE - Did I misplay?, mroban, 17. Dec 2003 14:29 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Steve: Are you in NYC? Its a live game. I have these games occasionally and yeah, its great playing PL. Its mostly HE with some Omaha and a little PL 7 Card Stud HL8. MR | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Big Slick Hand in PLHE - Did I misplay?, shorn, 18. Dec 2003 04:50 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| MR- Unfortunately, I am in Boston. I just remember you talking about Foxwoods once, so I had hoped you were closer! Steve | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network | Find Vancouver Businesses |
|