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Server Time: 12/1/2008 9:27:09 PM PACIFIC |
 What should I do.??, HoldemNewbie, 16. Dec 2003 07:44 | ||
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| Ive been playing Holdem for about 6 months now. Mostly online at Party Poker playing only $1/$2. I started with a $50 deposit, was up and down, lost the $50. redeposited $100 and started keeping track and built up my bankroll to $1800. I average about 20 hours a week and played only one table at a time. My hourly rate is 4.5BB/hour. I think i have a pretty good understanding of LowLimit. Ive read a few books and am constantly reading articles and posts online. I dont do any fancy plays in lowlimit, I play a strict, disciplined game. Ive pretty much memorized odds of making the most common hands. And I can also calculate pretty quickly, the pot odds and implied odds. Most of my drawing hands decisions are based on odds and I stick to that. 5 days ago, I moved up to $2/$4. I have lost $400 so far in about 20 hours of play. I know thats only a short while but Im thinking about going back to $1/$2. In the past few days, I dont think ive played bad at all. I never tilted, its just been a dry run of cards. The hands I can remember that I lost pots were, losing sets over sets, losing sets to a sucked out straight or flush. Cant remember the last time i flopped four to a flush or open ended straight and made my hand. Most pots I lost were from people sucking out on me. I dont mind that at all, it doesnt bother me, cause i know those are the type of players I want at the table and Ive learned to accept that in LL. Should I continue with 2/4 or go back to 1/2? They players werent all that different. | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, R4, 16. Dec 2003 07:53 | ||
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| I think you answered your own question - the players are no different. I think you could even bump up to a 5/10 game you will find the players no different there either. 10/20 is when the play quality goes up. As far as your current bad run - play through it. I really like the description of your play. If you are true to your description you will win and that is a statistical certianty. One other factor to consider is money management. Make sure you limit losing sessions and set a stop limit when you win. For example, when you are up at least 50 in a session you will end the session if you drop to 35 and when your reach 100 it the stop number is 70 and so on. on 16. Dec 2003 07:44 HoldemNewbie wrote: > Ive been playing Holdem for about 6 months now. Mostly online at Party Poker > playing only $1/$2. I started with a $50 deposit, was up and down, lost the > $50. redeposited $100 and started keeping track and built up my bankroll to > $1800. I average about 20 hours a week and played only one table at a time. My > hourly rate is 4.5BB/hour. I think i have a pretty good understanding of > LowLimit. Ive read a few books and am constantly reading articles and posts > online. I dont do any fancy plays in lowlimit, I play a strict, disciplined > game. Ive pretty much memorized odds of making the most common hands. And I > can also calculate pretty quickly, the pot odds and implied odds. Most of my > drawing hands decisions are based on odds and I stick to that. > > 5 days ago, I moved up to $2/$4. I have lost $400 so far in about 20 hours of > play. I know thats only a short while but Im thinking about going back to > $1/$2. In the past few days, I dont think ive played bad at all. I never > tilted, its just been a dry run of cards. The hands I can remember that I lost > pots were, losing sets over sets, losing sets to a sucked out straight or > flush. Cant remember the last time i flopped four to a flush or open ended > straight and made my hand. Most pots I lost were from people sucking out on me. > I dont mind that at all, it doesnt bother me, cause i know those are the type > of players I want at the table and Ive learned to accept that in LL. > > Should I continue with 2/4 or go back to 1/2? They players werent all that > different. | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, HoldemNewbie, 16. Dec 2003 08:00 | ||
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| i thought about stopping and ending sessions. But If im playin the way i am and not tilting at all and sticking to my play, why would i want to get up from a table when ive been drawn out on a few times. The right players are at the table. I dont stop my session if im losing or winning. I stop when the tables not that good or if im tired and not focused. Usually 3 hours is the average and sometimes i stick it out to 5-6 hour sessions. The past few days i bought in for $100 each time and played for about 4 hours. i bought in for another $100 one time. Besides that one time, the $100 lasted for 4 hours. I just didnt get back up after the tough beats. | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, HoldemNewbie, 16. Dec 2003 08:04 | ||
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| Another issue is that I dont have a lot of money. Im really looking at making a little extra money on the side. Ive read several times that you should have a Bankroll of about 300 BB. If i lose a few more sessions, Ill probably be down to under $1200 and forced back to $1/$2. Hey R4, Im definetly not thinking about going to $5/$10. Maybe if I get my account to over $4000. | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, R4, 16. Dec 2003 08:25 | ||
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| The reason you should stop is that the obeject is to win when you are winning and lose very little when you lose. As far as not being on tilt and the game being right as reasons for not ending a session ask youirself this. Are you experienced enough to know all the dinamics going on at the table to make that judgement. If you want to continue to grow your bankroll even faster and larger than you already have you need to set money management parameters. As far as playing/not playing 5/10. If you have bank roll issues that is of course another story. I'm simply saying a typical 5/10 game is skill-wise on the same level as a typical 2/4 game. on 16. Dec 2003 08:00 HoldemNewbie wrote: > i thought about stopping and ending sessions. But If im playin the way i am and not > tilting at all and sticking to my play, why would i want to get up from a table when ive > been drawn out on a few times. The right players are at the table. I dont stop my > session if im losing or winning. I stop when the tables not that good or if im tired and > not focused. Usually 3 hours is the average and sometimes i stick it out to 5-6 hour > sessions. The past few days i bought in for $100 each time and played for about 4 hours. > i bought in for another $100 one time. Besides that one time, the $100 lasted for 4 > hours. I just didnt get back up after the tough beats. | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, HoldemNewbie, 16. Dec 2003 08:29 | ||
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| thanks for the advice. What do you think is a good win/lose limit. If i lose my $100 buyin at 2/4 should i just a call it a night? Or should i look to find a better table? If im up $50, should i stop? | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, R4, 16. Dec 2003 08:39 | ||
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| If you are playing 2/4. I think you should buy-in for $40 not $100. Re-load another $40 if you lose your buy-in. If the 2nd $40 is lost end the session - that means go do something else. If your session ended in the morning it's Ok to come back and play in the afternoon or evening. If your session ended at nite - don't return until the next day. On the winning end if you are up $80 in any session stop the session if your winnings fall to $60 and when you get to up $160 stop if you fall to $120 and so on. Follow this formula and play as you diescribed in your initial post and you will have tremendous success. on 16. Dec 2003 08:29 HoldemNewbie wrote: > thanks for the advice. What do you think is a good win/lose limit. If i lose my $100 buyin at 2/4 > should i just a call it a night? Or should i look to find a better table? If im up $50, should i > stop? | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, HoldemNewbie, 16. Dec 2003 08:41 | ||
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| thanks.....ill try that. Im gonna head back to $2/4 tonight. Hopefully I wont be back at $1/2. | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, HoldemNewbie, 16. Dec 2003 08:43 | ||
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| I dont mean to be a pest, but Ive got one more question? If you buyin for only $40 at 2/4, what do you do when your down to around $10? Id hate to have a hand and not make enough as I should have. | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, R4, 16. Dec 2003 09:01 | ||
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| Don't re-load until you are completly empty. I understand your concern about what if you get a monster and don't have enough money on the table to max-out - this may happen. However, on the converse you are losing and likely you're making poor decsions or the table dynamics is not right for you - play short stacked until you win or empty. Watch and see many times you will take 5 or 10 dollars and run it up and many times you'll get a monster short stacked and go all in and lose and be glad you didn't have more on the table. The most import thing to remember is the big picture. If you get down to a short stack things aren't going well and when things aren't going well you want to minimize your loses. What you will find with this system is that on days you think you are getting hammered you'll lokk back and realize you really didn't lose that much. And on some of those days you will even finish up for the day when it feels like you lost. And when you have good days you wins will be bigger. However, remember all of this is predicated on your playing as you described. i.e. "Jam the pot when you have the best of it and fold right away when you don't. Don't take an extra card here or there just to see - that adds up qucikly as you know. Only play draw hands when the odss dicate you should. Remember in low limit games you don't really need to be deceptive, make sure your get all your bets in when you have the best hand - players at this level will call you down or even better try foolish blufs. Oh yes, the most important this is patience. Wait for a good starting hand and always be mindful of your position." on 16. Dec 2003 08:43 HoldemNewbie wrote: > I dont mean to be a pest, but Ive got one more question? > If you buyin for only $40 at 2/4, what do you do when your down to around $10? Id hate to have a hand and not make > enough as I should have. | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, HoldemNewbie, 16. Dec 2003 09:07 | ||
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| thanks again R4. I follow pretty much the strategies you mentioned. I dont do any fancy plays. I actually think i maybe to tight. But thats whole other story and post | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, Big_Slick, 16. Dec 2003 08:50 | ||
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| If im playin the way i am and not tilting at all and sticking to my play, why would i want to get up from a table when ive been drawn out on a few times. The right players are at the table. I dont stop my session if im losing or winning. If that's your attitude, then why are you wondering if you should move back down to 1/2? This logic would apply to your original post. The main reason you should consider leaving a table when you hit a predetermined win/loss is for psychological benefit. You've proven in your original post that this $400 loss has you a bit shaken. It's never a bad idea to pocket a win or two when the cards are running badly. | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, HoldemNewbie, 16. Dec 2003 08:54 | ||
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| I guess my question is how to play through a bad streak? do i drop down in limits or just keep on playin till it turns around? | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, HoldemNewbie, 16. Dec 2003 08:55 | ||
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| i like the idea of stop limit for win/loss. | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, Big_Slick, 16. Dec 2003 14:13 | ||
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| Many players will simply tighten up their play. I recommend that you do whatever you are most comfortable with. | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, HoldemNewbie, 16. Dec 2003 08:06 | ||
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| oh and by the way, my figures are correct and accurate. Ive been using a spreadsheet that i found at homepokergames.com. | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, HoldemNewbie, 16. Dec 2003 08:57 | ||
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| what about playing two tables at 1/2? Ive never played two at once. Is that a good or bad idea? | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, R4, 16. Dec 2003 09:09 | ||
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| It is a very bad idea. You may not realize that even the slightest decisio can be the difference between success and failure. Even if you don't intently watch hands you are not involved with (I watch TV when I play on-line) you are absorbing things going on at the table that will help you make good decisions. More importantly if you are at more than one table you have twice the money in play - if your bankroll can stand that then it can stand playing at a higher limit game. You'd be better off on one 3/6 game that two 2/4 games. on 16. Dec 2003 08:57 HoldemNewbie wrote: > what about playing two tables at 1/2? Ive never played two at once. Is that a good > or bad idea? | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, Mark Barnett II, 17. Dec 2003 10:31 | ||
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| what is being described in some of the above posts is a form of a betting system *think a reversed martingale* when you lose you start over *losing your buy-in* and when you win taking some of the profits but not all of them hoping to catch a winning streak *why the bottom limit goes up over time* yes you can go back to 1/2, whether you should or not is a different story and noone else can really answer that for you, so many things go into the equation, you should also look for the occasional oppurtunity at higher limits *study the table for awhile* who/what says the cards cant run all over you at a higher limit? if the players are the same and the only real difference is the size of the betting rounds then as long as you are comfortable with losing what you buy in for without playing scared take a shot. but do NOT discount the mental advantages of winning *why i say keep 1/2 in the mix* not a big fan of the 10XBB buyin just cause that doesnt even cover one fully raised hand which means you get any kind of nice hand cracked on the end and your busted. get nearly back to back bad hands beat *and i have had it happen frequently* and you have to leave and you dont really know much about the table other than you got a couple hands cracked. i would buy in for 35BB and after your out of each hand notice your chip count and evaluate the table, does it seem good? do you think your a favorite? if you lose 15+BB why did you lose? did you just get a couple hands cracked or are you leaking? personal suggestion from things you said *not much money and looking for supplemental income* go back to 1/2 for now keep playing *you havent been playing that long* build your extra bankroll up again, once you get back up to $1400ish look for a soft 2/4 game and look at it as an investment, buy in for 140ish and hopefully you win this time, just keep doing this til you win once *brains are funny things about not actually seeing something versus hearing/knowing logically about something* once you have won once bounce between 1/2 and 2/4 building up your BR til 2000+ then try the same thing with 3/6 until you win once *just proving to yourself that it CAN be done is a huge mental thing* dont risk losing your bankroll taking chances but slowly build it up til you have enough to take a shot at a higher level you think you have a good chance at beating Rule #1 of Poker Circumstances alter cases Rule #2 NEVER forget rule #1 | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, HoldemNewbie, 17. Dec 2003 10:53 | ||
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| Thanks for the advice. | ||
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| Re: What should I do.??, Flatout_Mainiac, 18. Dec 2003 19:02 | ||
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| Holdem, Sometimes it takes a week or so to get used to a different limit. You might not realize it but an slight increase in table competence can expose a leak that wasn't exposed by the typical $1/2 player. I suggest go back to 1/2 see if you can detect any differences in you game or the tables game and start from there. You might be starting with the same hand groupings but your post-flop play may be costing you money at your new limits. | ||
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