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Server Time: 12/1/2008 9:34:11 PM PACIFIC |
 Did I miss a bet on the end?, Numie, 15. Dec 2003 17:06 | ||
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| I'm playing LLHE online when I pick up AA in EP and raise. All fold to the BB who calls. The flop is 5h9s6h. BB bets out, I raise, and he calls. I put BB on a 9 or a heart draw because I had seen him play both top pair and flush draws in this way. Turn is the Js. BB checks, I bet, and he calls. Then the river is the ugly 8h. BB checks. I think about betting, but change my mind and check it as well. BB flips over K9 and I take down the pot. Should I have bet the river or was playing this one safe the right move? Thanks in advance. | ||
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| Re: Did I miss a bet on the end?, Highflyin3484k, 15. Dec 2003 17:15 | ||
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| Absolutely not, you made a great check... you are beaten by either a heart draw, or now a 7... 5 6 8 9 J... alot of hands beat you here, I really like your check here. Highflyin3484k (the 19yr old poker prodigy) | ||
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| Re: Did I miss a bet on the end?, Highflyin3484k, 15. Dec 2003 17:15 | ||
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| Absolutely not, you made a great check... you are beaten by either a heart draw, or now a 7... 5 6 8 9 J... alot of hands beat you here, I really like your check here. Highflyin3484k (the 19yr old poker prodigy) | ||
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| Re: Did I miss a bet on the end?, R4, 15. Dec 2003 18:11 | ||
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| I think the key here is that you had position and didn't use it. He checked the river after that scary card hit on the river. If you give him credit for being a decent player a decent player bets the river in his position if he gets there because the river card is liable to scare someone (like you) with a high pair to check. Therefore, when he checked the river you could/should put him on a 9x. | ||
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| Re: Did I miss a bet on the end?, jaustin, 15. Dec 2003 18:16 | ||
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| You bet the river for two reason, to fold better hands and have worse hands call you. I don't think there are any hands that he would fold that would have beaten your Aces, so the question is how many worse hands might he call you with vs. better hands that he is checking. The only hand he might call and lose with would be the hand he held - 9x. However, assuming he's not a terrible player, the x is probably a 7,8,or face. You only win if it's a ten, queen, king or ace. So even if you're right and he has a 9, the odds of you winning are about 2/3. Plus he may not even call with his now second pair with a flush and straight out there. Combine that with the chance he was on a flush draw and I think your check was the right play. on 15. Dec 2003 17:06 Numie wrote: > I'm playing LLHE online when I pick up AA in EP and raise. All fold to the BB > who calls. The flop is 5h9s6h. BB bets out, I raise, and he calls. I put BB > on a 9 or a heart draw because I had seen him play both top pair and flush draws > in this way. Turn is the Js. BB checks, I bet, and he calls. Then the river > is the ugly 8h. BB checks. I think about betting, but change my mind and check > it as well. BB flips over K9 and I take down the pot. Should I have bet the > river or was playing this one safe the right move? Thanks in advance. | ||
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| Re: Did I miss a bet on the end?, shorn, 17. Dec 2003 12:59 | ||
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| I disagree. You bet the river here for another reason...both you and your opponent likely realize that the river card was a scare card to the board, right? So, if he has the hand that beats you, will he really take the chance that you will bet it for him if he checks? No way...he will throw the chips in the pot if he has it. Secondly, he would also throw the chips in if he was on a total bluff if he had no chance of winning a showdown. The only times he will check with this board are (1) when he has a mediocre calling had (such as he did), or (2) when he has a hopeless hand and dioesn't want to bluff. Either way, you win when he checks so why not bet it and either make him pay to see or hide what you have if he folds without a showdown? | ||
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| Re: Did I miss a bet on the end?, grant pittman, 16. Dec 2003 09:34 | ||
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| Numie I would have bet on the end with your hand simply because most rational opponents should think that you held the hand that you did. It would also be rational for them to believe you may check an over pair on the end with that ugly river card. I think most opponents would bet 2 pair or better if they had it and wouldn't bother trying for a checkraise. Remember, also, that your opponent was in the blind and could hold any number of hands....his 2 card holding does not necessarily have to be coordinated ie:8,9..7,8 etc. Couple this with the fact that he WON'T fold a 9 or most other one pair holdings on the river and a bet is clearly correct here. I agree that this is an ugly river card but we want to make money when we have an opportunity so pull the trigger on the river. It's tough to make headway in poker with your tail between your legs!!! Just my thoughts. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: Did I miss a bet on the end?, jaustin, 16. Dec 2003 10:38 | ||
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| Grant, I'm not sure I understand your logic. If most opponenets would put him on the hand that he has and bet two-pair or better, then why would the call his river bet with just a pair. The only hands he might have that they could beat would be AK or AQ (and not suited spades). Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not sure he will call with his second (or worse) pair. on 16. Dec 2003 09:34 grant pittman wrote: > Numie I would have bet on the end with your hand simply because most rational > opponents should think that you held the hand that you did. It would also be rational > for them to believe you may check an over pair on the end with that ugly river card. > I think most opponents would bet 2 pair or better if they had it and wouldn't bother > trying for a checkraise. > > Remember, also, that your opponent was in the blind and could hold any number of > hands....his 2 card holding does not necessarily have to be coordinated ie:8,9..7,8 > etc. Couple this with the fact that he WON'T fold a 9 or most other one pair holdings > on the river and a bet is clearly correct here. > > I agree that this is an ugly river card but we want to make money when we have an > opportunity so pull the trigger on the river. It's tough to make headway in poker > with your tail between your legs!!! Just my thoughts. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: Did I miss a bet on the end?, grant pittman, 16. Dec 2003 12:14 | ||
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| Jaustin people call because they suspect they are beat and don't want to risk being raised. If you think that most players would check fold a pair on the river in this scenario I suggest you do a few more hand histories while playing online. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: Did I miss a bet on the end?, jaustin, 16. Dec 2003 13:16 | ||
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| Grant, I do think that many players will call with a single pair on the end, but I think that these are also the same players that will check/raise with the hands that beat you. If they're smart enough to know that you will most likely check your overpair and thus would bet their two-pair or better, wouldn't they also be smart enough to fold their one-pair. on 16. Dec 2003 12:14 grant pittman wrote: > Jaustin people call because they suspect they are beat and don't want to risk being raised. If > you think that most players would check fold a pair on the river in this scenario I suggest you > do a few more hand histories while playing online. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: Did I miss a bet on the end?, grant pittman, 16. Dec 2003 13:43 | ||
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| Jaustin a lot of actions in poker are not related to "smarts" as much as emotions. People make less than "smart" choices in poker all the time. This is a great example of how to exploit a less than sound decision making player.....a player that is quite abundant online. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: Did I miss a bet on the end?, jaustin, 17. Dec 2003 14:49 | ||
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| Good point Grant. Perhaps I am being too cautious on the river. This is something I will definitely look into. Thanks. on 16. Dec 2003 13:43 grant pittman wrote: > Jaustin a lot of actions in poker are not related to "smarts" as much as emotions. People make less than > "smart" choices in poker all the time. This is a great example of how to exploit a less than sound > decision making player.....a player that is quite abundant online. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: Did I miss a bet on the end?, shorn, 17. Dec 2003 12:53 | ||
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| No way he checks a flush on the end here into that somewhat raggedy board. You definitely missed a bet here because there were a lot of inferior hands that he would call you with. Plus, heads up only, it is less likely that you are facing a flush, so a bet is definitely in order. | ||
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| Re: Did I miss a bet on the end?, Schuster, 18. Dec 2003 23:51 | ||
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| I agree with Shorn and Grant. He's not going to check a made flush with that board. The only hand that might have you beat is two pair, but he is very unlikely to checkraise you with just that. I would have put him on the 9x and gotten another bet out of him. Lee | ||
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