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Server Time: 10/15/2008 11:36:32 PM PACIFIC |
 Playing a set, W9, 15. Dec 2003 16:14 | ||
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| Looking for a little advice on this situation..... Online, you are dealt pocket 9's on the button.......utg, and a few early /mid position players limp in. If you bet, you know that they will call and can only guess on the blinds. What should you do? Next, flop comes garbage with a 9, but two clubs show. Blinds, check Utg bets, you get two callers, one guy folds. If you raise you are reasonably sure everyone will fold. So my question here is, do you take the pot now, or slowplay against a potential flush draw for a much larger pot. | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, LJH, 15. Dec 2003 16:46 | ||
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| W9, WHY SO GREEDY? DO NOT SLOW PLAY. IT WILL HURT YOU IN THE LONG RUN.LJH | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, Highflyin3484k, 15. Dec 2003 16:56 | ||
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| Here is my thinking... I can see advantages either way. First off pre-flop, the only thing you would be looking to do is raise for value, and if you know everyone is going to call a raise is virtually throwing your money away. Now you say the flop came 9 xx (garbage). Ok say your flop is 9 c 5c 2, I feel that wether you raise or not should be on how you feel the others will play, if you think they will call, raise, if not I think I would cold call and here's my reasoning.. You know theres going to be at least one guy calling with overcards (i hate this play I hate just drawing to overcards). so let him draw... if a turn comes a king... GREAT, let him make top pair, he's not going to improve on your set. Likewise your not going to do much "protecting of your hand", your not going to "protect" it against a flush-draw, I dont care how much you raise. Also there will be the guy calling with middle pair... or with 10 9s... I dont see where slow-playing would get you in to any trouble, In fact the only difference I see between slow playing and jamming the pot is, you will be running out the people that have NO CHANCE of beating you... and like I said your not going to bet out a flush draw. So in my thinking let the overcards chase, and let the middle or the one top pair fish. Highflyin3484k (the 19yr old poker prodigy) | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, Highflyin3484k, 15. Dec 2003 17:00 | ||
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| after reading this I found a better way to say what I was thinking. I think you need to play it according to how you feel you can get the absolute most in the pot. if your last to act and alot of people just cold call, try and squeeze in a raise for value and hope they call. If you think you can get the most just ramming and jamming do that. Highflyin3484k (the 19yr old poker prodigy) | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, LJH, 15. Dec 2003 16:47 | ||
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| W9, WHY SO GREEDY? DO NOT SLOW PLAY. IT WILL HURT YOU IN THE LONG RUN.LJH | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, mkpoker, 15. Dec 2003 16:48 | ||
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| Pre-flop, I think you limp. With so many callers already in, you're really hoping to hit a set...and because of the implied odds you're right to shoot for it. With just one or two limpers in front, I'd raise, both to force out the blinds and "take control" of the hand (potentially getting you a free card if you miss the flop). But in the situation you described, a limp pre-flop is definitely the right play, IMO. On the flop, you MUST bet/raise with what is certain to be the best hand at this point. In your post, you say that you're confident your opponents will fold if you raise...but how can that be? Anyone on a high-flush draw will stay in. You must make them pay the maximum price to draw out on you. You cannot slowplay in this situation, IMO. | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, JLenart, 15. Dec 2003 19:31 | ||
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| Ram and jam that set. Make them pay for the draw!!!!! | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, HoldemNewbie, 16. Dec 2003 07:49 | ||
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| SLowplay? No way. In the the past few days I have lost 5 sets to higher sets. Yoou have to bet and if you take the pot there, thats fine. Maybe in NL you can slow play and try to bust another player. But if its Limit you have to bet. In limit is better to win a small pot that lose a big one. | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, FlopDaNutz, 16. Dec 2003 07:52 | ||
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| Slow playing this is a vey dumb move. Raise that pot every time, you will get at least 1 caller 75% or more of the time. | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, HoldemNewbie, 16. Dec 2003 07:54 | ||
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| i agree.....recently i have lost quite a few sets to straight and flushes. and I didnt slow play one time | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, Highflyin3484k, 16. Dec 2003 09:36 | ||
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| Ok, here is my thinking. If you are last to act and there has been a bet and two callers, which one of those betters/callers is going to fold a flush draw or a higher pocket pair for one more bet. Your not going to drive these hands out. The only hands you are going to scare off is two over cards (which are already drawing dead). Middle pair, or the only other 9 for top pair (which are almost drawing dead). I went back and corrected my self on the my first post, In my mind I kept thinking that if there were a bet and two callers, I would WANT to keep those people in the pot. So if I am last to act I would put a raise.... raise for value, not a raise to "protect". (I dont know what Im trying to say here). So while I said that you should slow play I geuss my explanation is the complete opposite. I just want the maximum I feel I can get in that pot, whether I feel that is one or two bet rounds all the way to the river taking 4 or 5 people, or whether its ramming and jamming with one caller. Damn its hard to explain what Im trying to say Highflyin3484k (the 19yr old poker prodigy) | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, Highflyin3484k, 16. Dec 2003 09:36 | ||
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| Ok, here is my thinking. If you are last to act and there has been a bet and two callers, which one of those betters/callers is going to fold a flush draw or a higher pocket pair for one more bet. Your not going to drive these hands out. The only hands you are going to scare off is two over cards (which are already drawing dead). Middle pair, or the only other 9 for top pair (which are almost drawing dead). I went back and corrected my self on the my first post, In my mind I kept thinking that if there were a bet and two callers, I would WANT to keep those people in the pot. So if I am last to act I would put a raise.... raise for value, not a raise to "protect". (I dont know what Im trying to say here). So while I said that you should slow play I geuss my explanation is the complete opposite. I just want the maximum I feel I can get in that pot, whether I feel that is one or two bet rounds all the way to the river taking 4 or 5 people, or whether its ramming and jamming with one caller. Damn its hard to explain what Im trying to say Highflyin3484k (the 19yr old poker prodigy) | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, Boftx, 16. Dec 2003 09:42 | ||
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| I'm going to agree with everyone else, forget about slow-playing if a flush draw is on the board. Make em pay to go for it. And if someone makes the classic free-card play, don't let em have it if the turn doesn't fit a flush or straight draw, bet into them. | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, W9, 16. Dec 2003 10:24 | ||
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| Thx for all the input on this. Last night I decided to play online 2/4 for about an hour. In that time flopped three sets, bet the hell out of all of them (even w/o draws) and won 2 nice pots. Ironically, the hand I lost with was pocket aces. In the small blind I got AA and raised, everyone calling. Flop cam As 9c 8c..........same situation except throw in a straight draw. Turn comes 6h. Bet and get called. River comes Kd. I bet, get raised, and call. Turns out the guy on the button had 10 7 o. Amazing, some people never fold. Oh well, the encapsulated lesson for the night (and that garnered from the majority of the responses), bet your sets aggressively and win more that you lose. | ||
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| W9:This is the WORST fundamental weakness you can have. . ., taxtorpedo, 16. Dec 2003 12:40 | ||
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| W9: This is a fundamental flaw I see over and over again from weak players: Checking/only calling with the best/strong hand because they are afraid of players folding. Yet these same players will often bet with weakness trying to drive players out. You are in perfect position to make a raise. A bet made and two people have already called. How would you play Kc10c in this position?? RAISE and hope you buy a FREE card on the turn if you miss. How about Ac9d??? You would raise with this hand for sure, but it is MUCH WEAKER than top set. > If you raise you are reasonably sure > everyone will fold. So my question here is, do you take the pot now, > or slowplay against a potential flush draw for a much larger pot. How does anyone know for sure what you're raising with??? Is it with a set or a draw or top pair??? So, how can you be sure everyone or ANYONE will fold??? By the way, if you were next to act after the bettor, a call would be much preferred. It will make a MONUMENTAL difference in your results if you bet your strong hands strongly and still be aggressive with marginal hands. (You have to know when to put on the brakes in the latter situation). If the only time you raise is with a set or overpair, your game needs a lot of work. In the meantime, KEEP FLOPPING TOP SET! | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, backtoanalog, 16. Dec 2003 16:35 | ||
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| Man, where is this game? 4 (or more) callers will fold with a raise behind them? Sounds like a dream game to me.... while highflyin makes interesting points, I still gotta say you play them fast. Maybe you get someone out with the low suited cards, fearing someone holding the nut flush draw. I would. Also, one thing that hasn't been discussed here is table image. This is a very minor point to take into consideration, but, I think anytime you can make your opponents fear you, and fear your raises behind them, that's a good thing... As always, I will end with the disclaimer that I am not an expert. | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, backtoanalog, 16. Dec 2003 16:36 | ||
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| Man, where is this game? 4 (or more) callers will fold with a raise behind them? Sounds like a dream game to me.... while highflyin makes interesting points, I still gotta say you play them fast. Maybe you get someone out with the low suited cards, fearing someone holding the nut flush draw. I would. Also, one thing that hasn't been discussed here is table image. This is a very minor point to take into consideration, but, I think anytime you can make your opponents fear you, and fear your raises behind them, that's a good thing... As always, I will end with the disclaimer that I am not an expert. | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, Aisthesis, 16. Dec 2003 18:04 | ||
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| I definitely agree with the general consensus of betting the set. But I have a question if we change the flop a little (for me, it's an NL situation, if that matters on the answer in this case): How about if you flop your set to a possible made flush (or straight--the answer really should be the same in either case)? I've had this happen several times and am pretty sure I went ahead and bet into the suited flop anyway. Without the possible flush, I'd be more inclined to overbet the pot, but if the flop is suited, I'm thinking maybe bet pot? Maybe a specific example is best for some further questions: You limp on 99 in MP, pot is unraised, with one EP limper another MP, an LP and the button. So, you and 4 others are in the hand. Flop comes 2d 9d Kd. It's checked to you. My tendency would be to bet pot there, but would be interested in hearing what others think. Then, second question arises if someone raises back at you. I'd be inclined usually to call, unless the raise is enormous, with the idea that someone might be trying to take down the pot just with the Ad and that I still have 7 outs for quad or boat (more on the river if I miss on the turn). With the raise on the flop, I'd be inclined, though, to definitely let the raiser take the lead on the hand unless the turn gives me the boat or the quads (until I get those, I'd for sure be trying to minimize the amount required to continue playing the hand). But if you just get a couple of callers to the bet, what do you do then? If the turn shows another diamond, I'm assuming go defensive and fold it you don't have acceptable odds for drawing to beat the flush. If neither a diamond nor an improvement for the set comes on the turn, should one bet pot (or at least half the pot, which is now pretty sizeable) yet again in most cases? (I'd be inclined to go that route although it has it's obvious dangers). Does this sound reasonable, or am I overplaying the set if I bet it along these lines? | ||
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| Re: Playing a set, shorn, 17. Dec 2003 12:38 | ||
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| I would limp on the button in a typical game, but raise if I felt that it might buy me a free turn card if the flop misses everyone. As for after the flop, this is a no-brainer raise as you don't want to give anyone a cheap card here. You are also happy to take it down as your set is vulnerable. | ||
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