|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 9/6/2008 3:52:06 PM PACIFIC |
 did i play this right??, big game, 14. Dec 2003 22:47 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| the big blind is aggressive with pocket pairs and Axs and also Ace with any face and here is how the hand went.... its a home game and the people i play with will see the flop with almost anything and there are 3 limpers to me..im on the small blind with pocket kings and raise to protect my hand and i am reraised by the big blind. all limpers fold and i cap it. big blind calls.. flop comes Ah Ad 6h. i raise to see where i am at and i get reraised and call turn is a 7s so the board is Ah Ad 6h 7s and i plan to checkraise but the big blind checks also river is 2s and i raise and just get called. the big blind had pocket queens and i took down a good pot..should i have bet the turn and should i have also put him on the Ace since hes the type to reraise with a strong Ace? thanks | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| yes, Easy E, 15. Dec 2003 03:55 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I think so | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: did i play this right??, 4 POKER, 15. Dec 2003 04:18 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Betting out on the flop is fine but, when you get raised, why would you go for a checkraise on the turn? If he has an Ace, you won't be able to get him off of his hand and you will wind up costing yourself extra bets. Or, what's worse yet, if he doesn't have an Ace but he raises you back anyway because he's the overly aggresive type?....He may very well get you to lay down a better hand! (either way, the checkraise play on the turn is not the right play here). If you think he is capable of betting the turn without an Ace, then just check and let him bet it for you, with the intention of check/calling on the river, as well. If you seriously can put him on an Ace, then a check/fold on the turn is in order. With two Aces being present on the flop, I would be more inclined to pay it off, but if he's the tricky aggressive type, I think you would be better off to not lead on the turn unless you really feel that he will back down and pay you off with a lesser hand. If he's capable of bluffing, then checking on the turn and river as a means to extract bets that you wouldn't have made had you bet it yourself...is the best option in my opinion. The time where I would bet my K-K for value is when I was heads up against a calling station. They will tend to just call you anyway, even if they have an Ace, but they will also pay you off with much less, a good percentage of the time. So in situations like this one, where you may not be sure if your hand is the best but it still 'may' be, I would think to myself, what play do I think would be the best play to use against this particular opponent at hand? Weigh your options. 4P- | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: did i play this right??, Snorbolus, 15. Dec 2003 11:14 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Comments interspersed: on 14. Dec 2003 22:47 big game wrote: > the big blind is aggressive with pocket pairs and Axs and also Ace with any face > and here is how the hand went.... > > its a home game and the people i play with will see the flop with almost > anything and there are 3 limpers to me..im on the small blind with pocket kings > and raise to protect my hand...... Usually this raise won't do much to protect your hand because it is a rare player who will not call a single raise after they have already put in one bet. Nevertheless it is a good "for value bet", you almost certainly have the best hand right now and you have a very good chance of winning this pot. > and i am reraised by the big blind. all limpers > fold and i cap it. big blind calls.. This is good news. The big blind is very likely to be loosing to you at the moment (based on your read of him), and there is nobody else left to draw out on you. > flop comes Ah Ad 6h. i raise to see where i am at and i get reraised and > call Bad flop - you think the big blind could well have an ace. Nevertheless, I think that betting out is not a bad play. You are either very far ahead or very far behind here. You are representing an ace when you bet and, as you say, it gives you a chance to "see where you are". When the big blind raised where did you think that you were? > turn is a 7s so the board is Ah Ad 6h 7s and i plan to checkraise but the big > blind checks also I don't understand why you wanted to checkraise here. Did you think that raising the flop was a sign of weakness from the big blind? I think that either check-calling or check-folding would be better. If I thought big blind had an ace I would have check-folded. > > river is 2s and i raise and just get called. > > the big blind had pocket queens and i took down a good pot..should i have bet > the turn and should i have also put him on the Ace since hes the type to reraise > with a strong Ace? thanks Against most opponents I think there is something to be said for betting the river after they check behind you on the turn. The only problem with this plan is that you can not call a raise. If you think that big blind might raise as a bluff, don't bet. Also, if you think that big blind might bluff here if you check, but is unlikely to call without an ace then don't bet. Otherwise go ahead and bet the river. If you do decide to check again I think that you need to call when big blind bets behind you because big blind knows that those aces look scary to anybody who dosen't have one and you showed weakness when you checked the turn. Snorbolus | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: did i play this right??, Aisthesis, 16. Dec 2003 18:19 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| What do you guys think of just going all-in in response to BB's re-raise? I would think KK is strong enough and it would have taken the guesswork out of the later betting. I do agree that the flop bet is fine despite the A risk, but I would have been very cautious about betting after that. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: did i play this right??, Snorbolus, 16. Dec 2003 21:39 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I had assumed that the post was about a fixed-limit game. If it was some form of big bet poker then things are very different. Snorbolus on 16. Dec 2003 18:19 Aisthesis wrote: > What do you guys think of just going all-in in response to BB's re-raise? I would think KK > is strong enough and it would have taken the guesswork out of the later betting. I do > agree that the flop bet is fine despite the A risk, but I would have been very cautious > about betting after that. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Did I play this right??(7CS), timmer, 15. Dec 2003 11:21 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I was playing stud last night online against some typically bad online players . I was faced with a situation that required a bit of thought. here is an excerpt from the hand. *** 3rd STREET *** Dealt to newtonic [7h] Dealt to Obadiah [5c] Dealt to Mopsy [Ks] Dealt to porkywill [Qh] Dealt to rockytop [8d] Dealt to panther43 [9s] Dealt to ME [2c 7s 4h] ME : brings-in low newtonic: calls Obadiah: calls Mopsy: calls porkywill: folds rockytop: calls panther43: calls *** 4th STREET *** Dealt to newtonic [7h] [7d] Dealt to Obadiah [5c] [4s] Dealt to Mopsy [Ks] [4d] Dealt to rockytop [8d] [Qc] Dealt to panther43 [9s] [4c] Dealt to ME: [2c 7s 4h] [5h] Pair on board - a double bet is allowed newtonic: bets small bet Obadiah: calls Mopsy: folds rockytop: folds panther43: calls ME : folds the open pair was suffering because of my hole card 7 and this players was a unimaginative loose passive one. the player Obadiah sometimes plays this way with singleton holed up A's Do you feel a call on my part is warranted ? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| timmer, you're kidding, right?, Easy E, 15. Dec 2003 13:34 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| on 15. Dec 2003 11:21 timmer wrote: > I was playing stud last night online against some typically bad online > players . I was faced with a situation that required a bit of thought. here > is an excerpt from the hand. > > *** 3rd STREET *** > Dealt to newtonic [7h] > Dealt to Obadiah [5c] > Dealt to Mopsy [Ks] > Dealt to porkywill [Qh] > Dealt to rockytop [8d] > Dealt to panther43 [9s] > Dealt to ME [2c 7s 4h] > ME : brings-in low > newtonic: calls > Obadiah: calls > Mopsy: calls > porkywill: folds > rockytop: calls > panther43: calls > *** 4th STREET *** > Dealt to newtonic [7h] [7d] > Dealt to Obadiah [5c] [4s] > Dealt to Mopsy [Ks] [4d] > Dealt to rockytop [8d] [Qc] > Dealt to panther43 [9s] [4c] > Dealt to ME: [2c 7s 4h] [5h] > > the open pair was suffering because of my hole card 7 and this players was a unimaginative loose passive one. > the player Obadiah sometimes plays this way with singleton holed up A's > > Do you feel a call on my part is warranted ? Short answer- no way in hell Long answer. Unless you were planning a move right now with a RAISE, what exactly were you hoping to do after you call? a) catch another flush scare card b) catch another straight scare card c) catch a deuce or five for two crappy pair Wait for a better situation, when you have more to work with. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: timmer, you're kidding, right?, timmer, 16. Dec 2003 10:01 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| open your mind...... | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| sorry, Quattro, I can't open it to a call..., Easy E, 16. Dec 2003 17:58 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| as I said, MAYBE a raise, unless you're telling me that the move is coming on 5th street. I don't like this situation with passive calling stations. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I play this right??(7CS), Pale Ale, 15. Dec 2003 17:34 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Yep...I think a call here is warranted. Of course if I wasn't paying close attention, I would probably muck without thinking. You've got good eyes. PA | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I play this right??(7CS), Pale Ale, 15. Dec 2003 21:50 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Since my first response didn't exactly hold to the spirit of this forum (Discussion), here goes. Timmer. Feel free to tell me how far off I am from your thinking, what I missed, and share the deciding factor with us. Let's say that this was a 10-20 stud game. By the time Timmer has to make a decision there should be $67 in the pot (forget the rake for a moment) (7 antes, 30 on third, 30 on fourth). He is facing a $10 bet. He has eight live cards (out of 37) to create an open ended straight. In addition, if he does catch a 3 or a 6 (primary), he will need an Ace/6 or 3/8 (secondary) to complete. On fourth street, all of his primary pulls are live but he suspects a second (other than an 8) with Obadiah (Ace), leaving seven-eight live (secondaries) He does not believe he is up against trips. He has a great drawing position. Nothing he can catch will give him the lead. In fact, panther is the only player who could do so...by pairing his nine. So it is likely that he will still be last to act on fifth street. He has a triple runner flush draw. But there were only 4 exposed hearts and Timmer has two of the three left on the board. If he catches a heart (3h,6h would do nicely), his "bad" opponents would be hard pressed to bet into him. Let's look specifically at what Timmer is up against. Those left in the hand include (7h,7d),(5c,4s maybe a hole Ace), and (9s,4c). The fours can't pair, there are two dead Q's,a king and a shared 5. There are no obvious flush draws out there and no one has shown any strength (perhaps they are concerned about the paired doorcard). If I could process this all in a heartbeat, I would take a card off here. This next card would define Timmer's hand. Regardless of whether over time it is the correct move, I made mention to Timmer's eyes because very few people would even notice this possibility and fewer still would bother to think about it. PA | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I play this right??(7CS), Easy E, 16. Dec 2003 06:14 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I don't know- needing to draw to GET a draw seems like a less than appealing prospect. Not having many other outs that are worthwhile (drawing to two smaller pair is ALSO not an appealing prospect) doesn't make me any happier I also would like to know about the small bet from the 7's when a big bet was allowed- does that mean slowplay, or just 7's? I'd also like to know more about the second caller. Plus, assuming O. has an Ace, could he already have a straight draw on fourth street? Again, unless I thought I could move someone off a hand, preferably the 77 (though getting out the presumed Ace would be nice as well), I don't think I'd play these cards. I'd wait for overcards or better hands to take advantage of their poor play. My preferences for 4th street are fold/raise/call. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I play this right??(7CS), timmer, 16. Dec 2003 10:22 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| on 16. Dec 2003 06:14 Easy E wrote: > > Plus, assuming O. has an Ace, could he already have a straight draw on fourth street? > Good if he has a smaller straight he will pay off nicely on the end. >don't think I'd play these cards. I'd wait for overcards or better hands to take advantage of their poor play. If you do that this preceived opportunity melts away forever. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I play this right??(7CS), Palinya, 16. Dec 2003 16:48 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| It seems to me like your asking if you played this right but you only want to hear someone say 'yes' It looks like chasing to me too. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I play this right??(7CS), Pale Ale, 16. Dec 2003 18:20 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| on 16. Dec 2003 16:48 Palinya wrote: > It seems to me like your asking if you played this right but you only want to hear someone say 'yes' It looks like chasing to me too. Actually Palinya, timmer folded the hand. It was never a question on whether he would be "chasing". The "unspoken" question was whether or not enough factors aligned in such a way, that the case can be made to play on with the hand (and profitably). By continuing with the hand he would be chasing 4 straight draws, three of them would be bigger than Obidiahs prospective wheel. I believe that's what he was pointing out to Easy E. His other comments were about opportunity and expanding (opening) a players mind. Anybody can play ABC poker. The top poker players are able "manufacture" certain wins, because they observe more and are able to perceive opportunities that most players overlook. Haven't you ever seen a player you admire, show down the most unlikely of hands...and win? If a player locks themselves in a box on how to play hands, they will doom themselves to mediocrity. Poker is a fluid, ever changing game. I can't speak for timmer, but I believe he is trying to tell us to think outside the norm. That is something that has my full support. Any time we open ourselves to approaching a subject from a different angle, we grow as players. PA | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I play this right??(7CS), Palinya, 16. Dec 2003 19:52 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| okay, this makes more sense to me. Thanks I have only played low limit so far and in low limit you can't afford to be creative because you have to show it at the end. But against people that are good and can lay down a hand... yeah this makes sense | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I play this right??(7CS), timmer, 16. Dec 2003 10:07 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| on 15. Dec 2003 21:50 Pale Ale wrote: > If I could process this all in a heartbeat, I would take a card off here. This next card > would define Timmer's hand. Regardless of whether over time it is the correct move, I made > mention to Timmer's eyes because very few people would even notice this possibility and fewer > still would bother to think about it. PA would you ever raise ? > | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I play this right??(7CS), Pale Ale, 16. Dec 2003 10:34 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Would I ever raise? Ever is a strong word. It's very player dependent. Against how I perceive these opponents, probably not. I don't exactly want to thin the field at this point. PA | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I play this right??(7CS), timmer, 16. Dec 2003 10:04 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Do I know you ? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I play this right??(7CS), Pale Ale, 16. Dec 2003 10:17 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| on 16. Dec 2003 10:04 timmer wrote: > Do I know you ? Sort of. Check your yahoo email. PA | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network |
|