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Server Time: 12/1/2008 9:07:10 PM PACIFIC |
 WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, Easy E, 10. Dec 2003 21:43 | ||
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| World Poker Tour ?Ladies Night? at the Bicycle in L.A. After the last few weeks of poor television tournaments, I was looking forward to all of the WPT zaniness again- yes, even Vince! The new set, assuming that is the new set, was interesting. Going for a more subdued look? Seems as if they?ve tuned down the music and the lighting?? So, will this be a precursor of the new WPT season in March 2004? Will commercials still occur every 10 minutes or so? The bios? The Vince over the top comments? Mike?s hand gestures? We KNOW Shana?s not going anywhere- her numbers are probably higher than anyone else?s! What happened to Linda Johnson announcing the action on the floor? (oh, I saw her later on) Did they tell the women to dress up and only half of them, the supposedly second-tier women pros, decided to do so? Annie, do something with that hair and take Kathy with you! Guess you keep it simple to not deal with it? Any correlation between looking good and playing good? Pokerbabe? The favorites are the worst-dressed? Clonie makes a standard? or nice? double-check with the trip Jacks.. but shouldn?t Jen have picked up on the overacting, since she did it in Aruba last year with the Aces? And does she really think Jen caught the flush on the river, or is that just safer since Jen probably won?t call a river bet of any size unless she?s winners? The four Queens graphic- maybe they can sell it to Bravo after this show and Bravo can improve on their programming with the ?Queer hand for the Straight-holdin? Man? tournament?? never mind. Nice power move by Annie with the Q9off power reraise of 120K back over the top of Kathy, making Kathy lay down. That seemed pre-planned for some reason to me? ?. and now Kathy puts on the sunglasses??? BOOOOOOO!!!!! It seemed that everyone was emboldened by Maureen?s play, taking turns running her off of hands that weren?t the best. She should have picked up on it and changed her play? Or are too many hands missing to get that read? I thought Jen?s small raise preflop and relatively small 40K bet on the flop, then showing the QQ, was based on keeping Maureen folding early when players would go after her?. Anyone else? I thought Mike Sexton?s criticism of Jen?s limp with 77 in the blinds, after 3 other players limped in, was incorrect. Does anyone else agree with Mike that most players would have raised here, unless you are up against weak players who are limping with crap? The hands weren?t great- T9c, QTh, KJd- especially since they crippled each other somewhat, but should you usually raise a middle pair here? What happens if someone comes over the top again, like Annie showed that she would do? Granted, she probably wouldn?t do it here on a bluff and therefore wouldn?t do it with T9suited? Vince?s first silly comment of the new season ?Annie Duke- the Gus Hansen of the ladies? ?.but nothing that he said tonight bothered me that much. Does that mean that he changed his act somewhat after last year?s torrent of abuse? Am I just coming to appreciate VVP more, given Jessie May and some of the other ?color? announcers we?ve seen lately? Am I mellowing in my old age?? I was a little curious about Annie?s comment about women ?having? to play differently than a man plays?. Has to, or chooses to in order to take advantage? She hinted at the latter definition later, but I didn?t like the ?women are inferior? connotation? or maybe I still have Mike Caro?s article on my brain. Antes 1500, blinds 6K/12K. Is that a good ratio, 6 handed, by the way? About 1:10 vs the big blind:? I was surprised Annie dumped QTd at this point, given some of her other play, but she was up front. Does up front have as much importance, when NL and shorthanded? I guess at a tougher average table, it does? Kathy?s ?the Jaws of all poker hands? (VVP, you must be getting comfortable again) only brings a 24K raise, which Jen Harmon calls with 99 from the SB? and Evelyn calls the raise as well with J7c? Pot odds call? Big blind call? When the 243 flops and Jen sees Kathy come over here 60K bet all-in?. and SAYS ?It smells like Aces to me? trying to get a read? and then CALLS?? Of course, it was only 70K more, but still?. Is that an automatic call here for Jen? Who the HELL was that guy selling the World Poker Holdem video for $20?? And now here?s Kathy Liebert making what seemed to me a comment making women poker players second-tier- ?women can make money playing poker and be successful?- maybe I?m just overly sensitive to this lately (any votes, UPF?), but it sounded wrong to me. Maureen calls with T8off in the SB?. And I KNOW a raise from Jen is coming, unless she has nothing. A4off?. Raise 76K, goodbye Maureen again. Anyone who actually saw this match, or who knows the actual flow of hands at the match, can you tell me if it was as obvious potentially in real life as it was on television? Should Maureen have picked up on this, or is TV distorting it too much? OHMYGOD! We?ve just discovered one person who is destined to lose- Annie, how could you fold PRESTO! ??!?! It was only 84K all-in from Jen! The Gods of the Golden Hand will punish you for your insanity! Will the next newbie wave (whether it?s mostly women, or anyone from WPT wave #2) feature people trying to all master the finger flick folding move that all of the women pros were displaying? How were they selected, anyway- anyone know? Annie, Jen and Kathy were obvious, as was Maureen evidently based on her record over the year?. plus her WPT showings last year. How did Clonie and Evelyn get selected? A ?Players? Lounge???? Who stole from who- Bravo or WPT? Now THIS one really DID look like a ?Losers Lounge?- WPT, dump this lounge- you didn?t get anything worthwhile out of it? well, except for Jen?s glare at Kathy and the ?don?t TALK about Aces!? Antes 3K, blinds 15/30K. AJoff goes all-in, Kathy calls immediately? with AT for 181K? what the heck was THAT move? I was surprised that Annie then folded the Q5off on the button- did she know that short-stacked Maureen was going to have to play this hand almost regardless of what she had? Maureen, time to burn that ?lucky? teddy bear! Annie, feeling pretty good with 783K vs 465K and 252K?? You?ve forgotten what you did to yourself earlier, angering the Gods of the Hand of Hands? you?re doomed. Besides, VVP picked you- that?s like fading scalf?s NFL picks! J You have no chance! Mike?s comment that Evelyn was ?pot committed? when Annie raised to 90K and Evelyn had A9s in the blind- is this really correct? It was only 76K more to call- was Mike basing this comment on the hand, or the blind? Daniel N- SIT DOWN! How much of this is anti-Annie Duke celebrating? Oh, you have a past with Evelyn? You DUMPED her as a teenager? Nice move?. Is that an example of ?oil and water (two poker players) don?t mix?? Talk about déjà vu! Clonie raises 75K with 33, Evelyn goes all-in with KQoff?. They?ve been possessed by the 2003 WSOP!! But this time, Chris Moneymaker folds the 33!! Let?s start the argument again- should Clonie have folded here? I don?t notice the WPT doing hand-advantage percentages. Am I forgetting that they never did that on occasion, or did they drop it? What was Clonie doing calling Annie?s 100K raise with J7h? Was she foolishly playing the rush she was on, or did she pick up something from Mrs. Duke? She was lucky with the flop, but she made a strong move on the flop going all-in over the top to take it. Later, Annie bets 1/3 of her stack on K6off. Smart move, 3-handed, or was she steaming about folding Presto! earlier? Mike, you should have mentioned that the 3 of diamonds on the turn did not make any difference in the hand, even though it paired Clonie. She was already ahead and didn?t need the second pair. I was disappointed that Annie didn?t show better sportsmanship immediately, after busting out with the TT (hmmm?. twice Presto!, Annie?. the gods are sending you a final message!) and making Clonie hunt her down to shake her hand.. but she had to be disappointed in herself. I can?t decide if the raining money was stupid or clever- probably stupid, since they had to delay the game to clean it up! Evelyn limps with AA and 653k in chips?. and Clonie goes all-in with 44?? Is this a power move, trying to slow Evelyn down after she had started building her stack up? Or does it make sense to do this with any pair and A-big hands? I thought the chips were too close to make this kind of power move- thoughts? Now Clonie puts on the sunglasses- watch out, that?s what Kathy did and she?s in the Losers Lounge! I was a little surprised by the all-in with K5s, but I guess she has to make some moves to overcome the 7:1 chip deficiency. I?m getting really excited now. Clonie?s all-in, it?s only 10:43?. Could the WPT have changed the 10:58 rule to trip us up? Nope, Clonie catches the gutshot wheel with her Ace?. Darn! Crazy pot, when Chonie catches the Ace against Evelyn?s 77 on the turn, then the Jack comes to split the pot. One thought- should they show more of the dealer?s action, running the game and moving the players along, so that newbies will become more familiar with casino game play? Not TOO much, of course- but they?re showing everything else under the sun with the bio pieces and such?. Or am I daffy? Mike?s comment about Evelyn calling preflop and then making a strong move with Q6suited as being a ?bold move with nothing? was silly- the board was pretty much nothing! I thought Annie played well early, but wasn?t sure about some of her play at the end. Clonie was helped out by flops and straight catches a fair amount. Maureen wasn?t reading the actions properly, Kathy made a big immediate call that crippled her. Not sure how I felt about Jen and Evelyn?s play. What were they playing for, anyway? Did they ever give the prize structure? It's good to be getting back to REAL poker on TV again- thank you, WPT! Signing off, Easy E | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, hokie95, 10. Dec 2003 22:21 | ||
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| L?o?v?e? t?h?e? s?u?m?m?a?r?y?.? H?a?t?e? t?h?e? q?u?e?s?t?i?o?n? m?a?r?k?s?!?!?!?!? And yes, it was great to see real poker played on tv again. And "Clonie " (or as Easy would say ?Clonie?) -- that was the compromise name? Wow. You know your parents are f'ed up when your LUCKY to have been named Clonie. | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, Blade, 10. Dec 2003 22:59 | ||
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| Didn't read the summary but Clonie and Evalynn were hot so was happy to see them get the most TV time. | ||
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| CRAP! That damn VB code again, Easy E, 11. Dec 2003 04:50 | ||
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| it's translating ' (apostraphe/single quote) and '' (double quote) into questions marks sorry | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, Mark Barnett II, 11. Dec 2003 09:15 | ||
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| actually i think her name is cyclonia *at least thats what i thought i heard in the bio part but was kinda fuzzy* Rule #1 of Poker Circumstances alter cases Rule #2 NEVER forget rule #1 | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, KJo, 11. Dec 2003 13:23 | ||
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| It is, her name was described as "weather-related." Eli on 11. Dec 2003 09:15 Mark Barnett II wrote: > actually i think her name is cyclonia *at least thats what i thought i heard in the bio > part but was kinda fuzzy* > > Rule #1 of Poker > Circumstances alter cases > Rule #2 NEVER forget rule #1 | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, johnph77, 11. Dec 2003 09:47 | ||
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| always used to call it parents' peculiar taste in nomenclature..... | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, ReMMy, 10. Dec 2003 22:56 | ||
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| Yah, all in w/ Q8o when you have the chip lead, for what a 50K blind or so? The entire heads up match was strictly all in's pre flop. Quite boring IMO. Oh well, better than Bravo's Celebrity Showdown. Good times, ReMMy | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, SpaceAce, 10. Dec 2003 23:07 | ||
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| Clonie was definitely not the best player at that table. Before it went heads-up it seemed like Clonie got just about every card she needed and she got saved twice in a row during the one-on-one play. I don't know what Evelyn was thinking with that ridiculous all-in at the end, though. That cost her the match. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen so many people on the World Poker Tour go all-in so many times. I didn't really notice, were the blinds higher than usual in relation to the stacks? SpaceAce | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, Schuster, 10. Dec 2003 23:30 | ||
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| They were horribly large... 25k 50k blinds with a 5k ante when it was down to 3 handed with only 1.5 million on the table total. Only 30 blinds between all the players makes for a lot of all in action. I was pretty disappointed as soon as I saw that since I knew it would get to be a crapshoot. Lee | ||
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| Also, wasn't this a freeroll freezeout?, Easy E, 11. Dec 2003 04:54 | ||
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| so someone said on another forum. That would change play quite a bit, especially if there were no secondary prizes. If this is true, does their play take on a different light? Maybe some of the moves weren't as bad as they seemed? Comments, any of you NL tournament pros? | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, SpaceAce, 12. Dec 2003 12:31 | ||
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| See, I hadn't even noticed. That would explain the numerous all-ins. SpaceAce | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, timmer, 11. Dec 2003 10:17 | ||
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| I remember cyclona from playing 2-4 hold em on her kitchen table back in Dallas fall of 97 with J.H and Tomcat. Id say she has moved up quite a bit. But to say she was the best player at the table is a bit farfetched to say the least . they needed T&A in this show and they got it. Clonie is a good looking gal and really nice too . But to clump her in with Annie, Jennifer, and Kathy as poker greats just aint going to happen any time soon. ( Sorry clonie) | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, Brian462, 10. Dec 2003 23:13 | ||
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| I? have? a? headache? now? THANKS? ALOT?!?! | ||
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| I know, I know!, Easy E, 11. Dec 2003 04:53 | ||
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| It wasn't intentional- I didn't type it. I ran the spell checker, noticed it was asking for word corrections for all of the contractions, but didn't pick up on the substitution of quotation marks. I apologized above. Mike/Roy- this was MS Word text that the code here continues to have problems with. Any possibility of a fix? Translating and editing through notepad is a real pain... | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, Kymmer, 11. Dec 2003 07:15 | ||
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| Well, watching the game was interesting, but, I just have to say that from a woman's point of view I found some of the commentary condescending and chauvenistic. I imagine that the women were probably paid some bucks to particiapate in the tourney - I believe Annie or Jennifer stated at one point they don't play in 'women's' events because the 'secondary' implications. BUT - I also realize that in the poker world, enlightened males are are probably few and far between. I guess maybe we'll know that we've reached the 21st century when we hear Van-Patten or Sexton comment that Gus Hanson is the Annie Duke of the men, or that Phil Helmuth is looking particularly handsome this evening......... ;^) ;^) <><> Luv ya', guys! http://www.kebzweb.com | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, gary ford, 11. Dec 2003 09:22 | ||
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| on 11. Dec 2003 07:15 Kymmer wrote: > Well, watching the game was interesting, but, I just have to say that from a woman's > point of view I found some of the commentary condescending and chauvenistic. I > imagine that the women were probably paid some bucks to particiapate in the tourney - > I believe Annie or Jennifer stated at one point they don't play in 'women's' events > because the 'secondary' implications. > > BUT - I also realize that in the poker world, enlightened males are are probably few > and far between. I guess maybe we'll know that we've reached the 21st century when we > hear Van-Patten or Sexton comment that Gus Hanson is the Annie Duke of the men, or > that Phil Helmuth is looking particularly handsome this evening......... ;^) > ;^) <><> Luv ya', guys! > > http://www.kebzweb.com LOL -- what can you expect when you have 2 chauvinistic announcers? One southern chauvinist and one Hollywood chauvinist. What was needed was a knowledgeable lady announcer ( Linda Johnson? ) Gary--fuel the boom---throw perfume on it ( ducking ) | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, noiseboy, 11. Dec 2003 09:25 | ||
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| Well they might comment on the appearance of the male players, except it would be mean to have to say, "my what a bunch of trolls we have at the final table tonight!" I do agree that they were a little bit over the top about how "HOT" the players were, etc... There's nothing wrong with saying that the women looked nice, but they did seem a little bit like announcers for a women's mud wrestling match or something. When they weren't drooling over the final two, they did point out that the poker was every bit as good as the men's, to their credit. | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, asnyder, 11. Dec 2003 10:29 | ||
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| or that Phil Helmuth is looking particularly handsome this evening......... Awww geee c'mon, there would need to be at least reasonable amount of probability that PH was EVER handsome. Great poker player, but he's definitely got a face for radio. | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, Kymmer, 11. Dec 2003 12:12 | ||
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| Well.......when he pulls the UB cap down low and turns up the collar on the jacket, and the camera's at his back.................... Phil's not that bad lookin'.......compared to some of the Jabba-the-Huts that have graced the final tables, he's a down-right Han Solo........ 8-D 8-D http://www.kebzweb.com | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, LJH, 11. Dec 2003 12:42 | ||
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| EASY E, WHAT ARE YOU THE FASHION MENTOR. WHY CAN'T WOMEN DRESS LIOKE THEY WANT TO. THE MEN ALL DO. LJH | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, Easy E, 11. Dec 2003 14:02 | ||
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| No, that's Pokerbabe on 2+2. AND WHY ARE WE YELLING!?!? | ||
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| Re: WPT season 2- Ladies Night tourney- SPOILERS!, KJo, 11. Dec 2003 13:22 | ||
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| A few of my own observations on everything but the actual poker: Vince: "Maureen looks like she just stepped out of a Merchant Ivory film." Mike: "A what?" Vince: "Never mind." Classic. Nice of Evelyn to do her bio in a bikini, presumably to show off what her poker winnings bought her. Does Clonie own anything other than spaghetti-strap tops? And Clonie is a name only someone in Texas would get. Nice crack on Ben Duke. Pull 'em up, Mr. Mom. The dealer for most of the episode was the rebuy guy for their regular tourneys, congrats on the promotion to him. the big money drop was totally lame, since watching people scramble to pick it up totally defeats whatever might have been cool about it. Loser's lounge wasn't exactly party central, and why do losers get champagne? Shouldn't they be pouring something harder, like shots of Jim Beam lined up? I liked hearing Maureen say "video parlor." Don't know why, just liked it. Always love the "from Los Angeles", "from Hollywood," and all the shots of the Sunset strip. Guess they can't say "from beautiful downtown Bell Gardens" and show the IHOP across the street. Annie Duke is the "female Gus Hansen?" Could have been worse, Vince could have called her the "female Mike Sexton." To Jennifer and her husband- put helmets on when you're on the motorcycle, you can get a ticket for that. I think Daniel still has it goin' on for Evelyn. That's all for now. Eli | ||
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