|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 1/8/2009 9:35:13 AM PACIFIC |
 Just can't beat 3/6, LKP, 9. Dec 2003 21:07 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I must admit I'm starting to get a little discouraged. Does anyone have any low limit online strategy tidbits they could share? I guess I've taken spent some time and money getting valuable lessons from the 3/6 tables on Party. For instance, 1) I used to think that someone was an observant, wise player until they proved otherwise. I now think that someone is a totally thickheaded calling station who will pay attention to nothing but his own cards - unless he proves otherwise. I lost a lot of money expecting more from my opponents: expecting them to realize my tight image and respect my raises and bets, expecting them to be wary when the board was 10 J Q K and they hold J7, etc. I now don't bluff someone unless I know they can be bluffed - by default I classify everyone as a calling station. 2. Don't even bother reraising preflop on the BB with something like JJ. You aren't going to drive anyone out of the pot, and you're only increasing the pot odds for people to stick around and outdraw you. 3. Don't worry about trying to manipulate your image. Don't worry about trying to do cute things like raise with suited connectors for the deception of it. Don't worry about trying to "advertise". Chances are the majority of your opponents are not watching anything but their own cards. I must admit this situation leaves me feeling a litte hesitant about my game. I think I'm a pretty decent player as far as picking up on betting patterns, etc. Sometimes, I'm pretty decent at reading people's hands. But nevertheless, this hasn't given me any advantage on the 3/6 tables. Just today, I had a set of J's beaten by an inside straight draw catch on the river. I had AA beaten by an inside straight draw catch on the river from someone who called my preflop raise with a 47offsuit (he wasn't in the blinds). I had Q9 on the BB, flopped top pair, and got beat by someone who held QK and called me until they caught a K on the river. My bankroll at first jumped up about 300 or 400 in A DAY. Now in the past few days, I have tanked. I've lost that profit and gone about 200 in the negative. Don't get me wrong, there have been a few times where I had the inferior hand from start to finish. But it does seem that a lot of these insane calling stations are paying way much more than they should and get lucky. Maybe I caught a run of cold cards and my luck will change. Maybe that's just poker. But I'm losing right now, and I'm not sure that it's just a swing of luck. I think I might need to adjust my play. I think it's kinda odd that I honestly feel like I could do better in a game where the players were better. It takes a lot of the fun and psychology out of poker too. It seems much more like a game of just getting good cards than it does on playing your cards well. I've been playing very tight and aggressive. I used to almost always jam the pot when I represented a good hand preflop by raising, but now as I mentioned above, I'm not trying to worry about my image. It seems now I've reacted to their poor play by just playing my cards even more straightforward. I only call with suited connectors when in late position and about 4 or 5 callers in front of me. I only really call with hands like suited connectors, low/medium pocket pairs, and the occasional hand like AQo or AJ (maybe I shouldn't even be playing those hands). Everything else I raise with or even reraise with. Am I too tight? Too loose? Do I need to play less hands like AK and more hands like 10Js? Any tips at all? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Just can't beat 3/6, Brian462, 9. Dec 2003 21:30 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| >It seems much more like a game of just getting good cards than it > does on playing your cards well. Low limits basically are a game of getting good cards. Yes you want to play your cards well, but only the good cards. Your advantage comes from others playing mediocre and even very bad cards(and they play those badly even). I've basically given up on trying to put most players "on a hand", especially when headsup or against only 2 others. If someone calls a raise cold don't assume anything about their hand UNLESS, as you have said, that player has proven to you that he is decent. Even if you think a player is decent I wouldn't try to put moves on him because he has probably seen maniacs bluff at him over and over again and given the size of typical pots, will just call you down. Since I've started playing I've learned one thing: Correct low limit play is very tedious and very mind numbing. I'll leave you with this quote from a low limit player: "I had 77 man, and I knew he had a king, but I was waiting for the third 7. I had a feeling..." | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Just can't beat 3/6, Jojo, 9. Dec 2003 21:51 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I think your quote perfectly describes party poker low limit tables. If you want to play low limit tables with people who decide 82o is not a good hand to play from EP, then I suggest ultimatebet.com. I play party and UB, I usually reserve my UB account when the Party people crack me one too many times with 10 4s. When I play on UB, I observe very tight play, even at the low limits. It seems like a double edged sword though...I don't get as much value from my hands, but have more opportunity to steal blinds and pots after the flop from late position...things that would never happen at Party as long as one of the people still in the hand have their A4o waiting for that Ace on the river. As a side note, I love this site and all the people who post on it. You guys are my sanity for listening to people who understand poker since the only people I know who play poker for money are the same people who call a hand because "they had a feeling", no matter how much I plead with them. God bless partypoker.com, Jojo | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Just can't beat 3/6, Candide, 10. Dec 2003 07:41 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Reread Lee Jones WLLP book would be my suggestion. Don't do any fancy moves, don't try to run people out. The goal in low limits is to win big and lose little. Don't bother with "edge" hands, one that is a coin toss. Fold and wait until you have the best of it and raise. Put money inthe pot while you have the best hand and more often than not, you will come out ahead. I think Jones says in many places "look for a reason to fold". And like you said, assume they are idiots until proven otherwise. Just because YOU know you shouldn't call a raise with 48o doesn't mean they don't realize it. "Any two cards can win". The one "play" I have seen as valuable is putting people into a position of having to call 2 or 3 bets cold. If you are last to act and raise, almost everyone will call that raise. But if the person to your right bets, and you raise then, you can get some people out. But there are many who will try for that runner runner if there is any chance regardless of cost. First thing I realized was don't even worry about your image. Advertising is just giving away your money. Only bluff when you know that person is capable of folding, which will be a rare occasion. So, to put this in a single statement: Play straightforward solid poker, nothing fancy. Yup, can be boring, but if you are like me, I enjoy winning money more than anything else in the game, so it is always fun. If you find that you are folding way to often and it is boring, consider playing two tables at once. Jason | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Just can't beat 3/6, Flatout_Mainiac, 10. Dec 2003 12:53 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I agree with this. I had a bad run of about $700 at 3/6 and for the life of me I could figure out why. Sure I got my usual bad beats and cold card but ultimately I blamed myself for the loss as I was has a case of "Skalanskyitis" and I was using too many fancy plays which worked in simular situations at more skilled tables but were completely over the head of my opponents. I settled down back into a boring, Jonesish, style and quickly recouped my loss. My old hockey coach used to tell me to never drop down to the level of your opponents.....I guess that doesn't hold true in poker. You need to think at their level to understand how to adjust your game to get the most positive result. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Just can't beat 3/6, Snorbolus, 10. Dec 2003 09:31 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| For what it is worth, my advice is to play conservative, solid poker in the beginning. For the most part stick to good starting hands and only continue after the flop when it hits you hard - either top pair or better, or a good draw (sufficient odds and be sure you are drawing to a hand that you believe will win if you make it). This alone will not make you a winner in any but the most fishy of games, but it is easy to do and it will limit the amount that you loose. To become a winning player you must then learn the difficult poker skills. Most important is game selection. You simply must find games where you feel comfortable and in control. Then, when you find a good game, you need to observe your opponents, understand why they play the way they do, identify their strengths and weaknesses, devise strategies to avoid their strengths and profit from their weaknesses. Learn to put players on hands based on their previous play - not just on the way that you play hands. This all requires time and practice. That is why it is so important to play a solid, conservative game while you learn. You will find people who make seemingly bizarre plays at all limits. You should not spend much time wondering about why other players are not playing the way that you think they should. Better to concentrate on how they are playing. Try to understand why they make those decisions and how you can use their style to your advantage. Also what problems other players styles might cause for you in a hand and how you can minimize the effect of these. Snorbolus | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Just can't beat 3/6, LKP, 10. Dec 2003 12:27 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I think game selection is something I need to work on. A combination of my own desire to learn skills in all types of games and my lack of patience to wait for the right table - both have led me to just put myself on the waiting list for the first available table with 9 people. Perhaps the patience to wait for a table will be the biggest key. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Just can't beat 3/6, Boftx, 10. Dec 2003 10:04 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Try playing the 1/2 or 5/10 6-handed games for a while. Find the right table, and it will be a great boost to your sanity. Your big pairs will hold up more often and so will your hands like AJ - A9 since there is a much lower probability that someone else will have an A against you. Warning, be ready for some culture shock when you get back on a full ring game. Jim | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Just can't beat 3/6, LKP, 10. Dec 2003 12:28 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I wouldn't feel quite comfortable bankroll-wise going with the 5/10, but I'll give the 1/2 a shot. Thanks. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Just can't beat 3/6, Mark, 10. Dec 2003 13:14 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Without knowing how you play, i would say to tighten up significantly. Play with the idea that If your hand isn't worth a raise, it may not be worth playing. This can be boring if you catch a sub-par run of cards, but it is a good way to book a few small wins and get back to feeling confident. Don't go overboard with this. There are many hands and situations that require you to call. But in general, only play very strong hands and fold many flops, for a while. I go through a definate cycle with my online play. 1. Play well and win $ 2. Become very confident, move up in levels, win more $ 3. Start losing to "bad" players 4. Lose alot of $ 5. Move back down in levels and continue to lose 6. Get frustrated and confused. 7. Lose bank roll and quit for a while 8. Buy-in again and repeat I've figured out what happens between stages 2 and 3. Because i'm winning alot, catching good cards, and feel like i have good reads, i start to loosen up and become very aggressive. Once this happens and the cards return to normal or I get a bad run, I start to lose (stage 3). Before i recognized this cycle, i used to build up a big bankroll, then lose it all. Now I am able to see what is happening and can stop it. What I do when I see that i am losing alot is, i cash out most of my roll, spend it on something fun, and take a break from online poker. For the last few months, i was consistantly beating my $5-10 online game, and breaking into the $10-20 game. Then i started to lose, so i cashed out and spent my money on a bachelor party in Vegas ( and poker). Since starting to play again i continued to lose most of the small roll i left in my online account and am once again struggling to rebuild it at the $1-2 levels. Its hard to concentrate on a $10 pot, when i used to be pulling in $200 pots, but this is the only remedy i've found to break that cycle. So my advice is to either cash out and take a break, really tighten up, or both. Good luck Mark | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network |
|