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Server Time: 12/1/2008 4:21:49 PM PACIFIC |
 Please help me understand this hand., HW, 8. Dec 2003 10:49 | ||
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| This one hurt alot. I played it very poorly, but can't seem to come to grips with the winner's play here. I am playing online at a 3/6 table and get AA in LP. EP raises, MP reraises, I reraise again, EP caps, MP calls and I call. Everyone else folds. EP and MP are somewhat loose and aggressive but not maniacs. MP usually respects raises, especially preflop ( which is my point here ) They have been engaging in a competitive banter for the last 20 or so hands, mostly insults flying back and forth about the other's bad play. Flop comes 2,Q,5, rainbow. EP bets --- and almost instantaneously MP raises. I reraise ( while fearing the set of Qs but wanting to get info) and EP caps, and MP and I call. A 9 falls on the turn. Again, EP bets and immediately MP raises. I call ( a fold was clearly in order here but not the point of this email) It gets reraised and capped. I know I am beat. A 4 lands on the river. Same thing, pot gets capped. MP turns over AQ, for a pair of QQ, and MP turns over 45 suited, and wins with two pair. How does MP bet and raise like a madman with 54 preflop and then with a pair of 5s on the flop? Comments please. | ||
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| Re: Please help me understand this hand., mkpoker, 8. Dec 2003 11:15 | ||
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| I think you've answered your own question here. MP played the hand terribly (and EP played pretty badly as well). I guess they were both tilting against each other, each refusing to back down in the face of perceived insults from the other side. Playing on emotions sure makes for bad poker... | ||
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| Re: Please help me understand this hand., Candide, 8. Dec 2003 11:24 | ||
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| I've been in similar situations, where two people were in a pot against a third...one had a legitimate hand, the other a poor hand, and the third a great hand. The poor hand would bet into the great hand who would of course raise every round, with the good hand just calling along. Afterwards, when they showdown, the good hand insults the poor hand and whines about how he cost him money. Poor hand then points out good hand didn't play it well either. If they continue to talk, watch how they play. Many times it becomes just as you described, a raising war between the two of them. I tend to avoid that situation if you can (hopefully they act before you, and you see the raises) with all but the best hands. You can make a killing off of them, but you can also end up putting in way more money than you had anticipated with your hand. Jason | ||
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| Re: Please help me understand this hand., HW, 8. Dec 2003 12:11 | ||
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| Thanks for the comments. I guess my perhaps unstated point here is are we possibly dealing with collusion. Fake arguing, etc., and then waiting for the oppurtunity to work together and jam the pot with the low suited connector draw ( which under normal circumstances definitely should have folded preflop here) and two bigs cards ) which also should have folded here ) in a one- of- us- will- win- this- thing scenario? | ||
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| Re: Please help me understand this hand., Snorbolus, 8. Dec 2003 12:32 | ||
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| If they were colluding then they were making a very bad job of it. All that re-raising would have either chased you out of the pot altogether if you didn't have them beat or lost the two of them a ton of cash if a 4 or 5 had not fallen on the river. By the way, when you re-raised the flop for information what information were you hoping to get? I ask because you called along while both the turn and river got capped anyhow. Snorbolus on 8. Dec 2003 12:11 HW wrote: > Thanks for the comments. I guess my perhaps unstated point here is are we possibly dealing with > collusion. Fake arguing, etc., and then waiting for the oppurtunity to work together and jam > the pot with the low suited connector draw ( which under normal circumstances definitely > should have folded preflop here) and two bigs cards ) which also should have folded here ) in > a one- of- us- will- win- this- thing scenario? | ||
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| Re: Please help me understand this hand., Phish, 8. Dec 2003 17:47 | ||
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| on 8. Dec 2003 12:32 Snorbolus wrote: > By the way, when you re-raised the flop for information what information were you hoping to get? I > ask because you called along while both the turn and river got capped anyhow. > Good question. So many people say things like that. Some even say "I raised the turn to get information or to find out where I'm at". While there is a legitimate use of bets and raises to gain info, I think too many people uses that as a rationale without thinking it thru what it all really means. Info is useful only if you can make use of it and are willing to act on it. | ||
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