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Server Time: 1/8/2009 5:43:07 AM PACIFIC |
 3-bet KK from the SB multi-way?, mkpoker, 7. Dec 2003 18:46 | ||
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| So here's the situation. At an online 5/10 table, I'm dealt KK from the SB. This table had been very tight, and I was up very modestly for the session largely from stealing blinds. UTG, probably the most aggressive player at the table, open-raises. Five (5!) players call the raise to me. I don't think we've seen a flop 6-handed all night...and this is a raised pot! So here's the question...do you 3-bet here or cold-call? Obviously, 3-betting won't limit the number of players (anyone who called 2 bets will call a 3rd). But it will get more money into a pot where I figure to have the best hand. The downside, of course, is that a 3-bet from the SB represents tremendous strength, and it might be useful to hide that fact until later. It's also possible that adding more money to the pot could give some questionable draws the right odds to chase post-flop. I 3-bet, everyone called. The flop came 3h6c7c. I bet and got raised by UTG. 1 MP caller. I called also (maybe re-raise here?). Turn is Kh (thanks!). I bet the turn and only UTG calls. River is a blank. I bet, UTG folds. Post-flop, I think this hand pretty much played itself, (though perhaps I should have re-raised on the flop). But pre-flop, I wonder if others might have just called in order to disguise the strength of their hand. All comments welcome as always! | ||
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| Re: 3-bet KK from the SB multi-way?, Blade, 7. Dec 2003 18:51 | ||
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| I would have definetly reraised the flop. I think because it was a tight table the likely hood of those players staying in past the flop in slight. Thus not getting you much additional action. I also would think that the early callers allowed for some of the mp & lp players to call with drawing hands. I want to charge them upfront for taking a shot at the KK. Also a slight possibility that someone with a hand like A10 decides he is dominated and saves the extra bet by folding. | ||
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| Re: 3-bet KK from the SB multi-way?, ADAM THE EXPERT, 8. Dec 2003 03:26 | ||
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| More like very very very very very very very very very very very very slight!!!! Only once in several thousand hands, do you see someone actually put in two bets before the flop, and not put in the third. Maybe heads up, but with six!!! No way. | ||
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| Re: 3-bet KK from the SB multi-way?, LJH, 7. Dec 2003 19:15 | ||
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| mkpoker, why are you playing so slowly. you must res-raise on the flop. ljh | ||
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| Re: 3-bet KK from the SB multi-way?, Blade, 7. Dec 2003 19:17 | ||
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| whoah, LJH....undercase...did you get new glasses or a bigger monitor? | ||
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| Re: 3-bet KK from the SB multi-way?, Piers Majestyk, 7. Dec 2003 20:03 | ||
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| I think 3 betting is the right thing to do here and hope for an advantageous flop. The UTG player did you a nice favor by raising you on the flop to make it easier for the others to fold, you should have rewarded him by reraising him. If he had AA he would have capped the action preflop and if he had a set he would have probably just called the flop bet. What would you have done if a Q hit the turn instead of a King (check?) to the raiser or continue betting the turn, if the answer is continue betting you should have 3 bet him on teh flop and continued hammering him, you three bet into 5 players preflop you don't much of a hidden hand anymore. maximize it. | ||
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| Re: 3-bet KK from the SB multi-way?, ADAM THE EXPERT, 8. Dec 2003 03:23 | ||
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| Well, the choice of whether or not to three bet this hand, in this spot, depends on one basic premise. Do, you need this pot, to give you a physcological and financial "boost" or or you capable of still playing correctly, if you have a "bad beat" In the long run, three betting here, will make you more money, as you (probably) have the best hand, and are a money favorite, even if you are a 4-1 dog, to win the pot. Also, many people, will go ahead, and cap, just to prevent someone else, from having the satisfaction of being the "capper" and "someone else is gonna do it anyway" so, now, you have doubled the pot size. Of course, this will attract people, to call you from the next county!!! Anyone, with any piece of the flop, with call, and you will win the pot less often, but will win more when you do. There is a reasonable agrument for smooth calling the raise. InsoMuch as the raiser, is to your immediate left, and has exhibited strong aggressive tendencies, he may very well raise the pot of the flop, thus provided you with a "defensive" block, against the field-if you smooth call before the flop. Also, you might want to see if an ace flops, before putting in too much money. with a field this large, you can be almost certain, that someone will have paired, if the ace shows. This is why KK is known as "ace magnets" So, if you can be sure that the original raiser, will raise the flop, smooth call. If you are not sure, and are more concerned with long term profit, than short term satisfaction, reraise. A.T.E. | ||
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| Re: 3-bet KK from the SB multi-way?, 4 POKER, 8. Dec 2003 03:28 | ||
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| Good post ADAM! 4P- on 8. Dec 2003 03:23 ADAM THE EXPERT wrote: > Well, the choice of whether or not to three bet this hand, in this > > spot, depends on one basic premise. > > > Do, you need this pot, to give you a physcological and financial > > "boost" or or you capable of still playing correctly, if you > > have a "bad beat" > > > In the long run, three betting here, will make you more money, > > as you (probably) have the best hand, and are a money favorite, > > even if you are a 4-1 dog, to win the pot. > > Also, many people, will go ahead, and cap, just to prevent someone > > else, from having the satisfaction of being the "capper" and > > "someone else is gonna do it anyway" so, now, you have doubled > > the pot size. > > Of course, this will attract people, to call you from the next > > county!!! Anyone, with any piece of the flop, with call, and > > you will win the pot less often, but will win more when you > > do. > > There is a reasonable agrument for smooth calling the raise. > > > InsoMuch as the raiser, is to your immediate left, and has > > exhibited strong aggressive tendencies, he may very well > > raise the pot of the flop, thus provided you with a > > "defensive" block, against the field-if you smooth call before > > the flop. > > Also, you might want to see if an ace flops, before putting in too > > much money. > > with a field this large, you can be almost certain, that someone > > will have paired, if the ace shows. > > > This is why KK is known as "ace magnets" > > > So, if you can be sure that the original raiser, will raise the flop, > > > smooth call. If you are not sure, and are more concerned with > > long term profit, than short term satisfaction, reraise. > > > > > > > > > A.T.E. | ||
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| Re: 3-bet KK from the SB multi-way?, Candide, 8. Dec 2003 08:33 | ||
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| I agree, good post. I'm so glad you decided to stop using all caps. And lately you seem to be a bit less arrogant and come across as much more friendly and helpful. This one helped me a bit, and I appreciate it. (this coming from one of the "please ban adam" members earlier) | ||
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| Re: 3-bet KK from the SB multi-way?, iceman5, 9. Dec 2003 13:49 | ||
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| With this many callers, isnt there a decent chance that 2 or more aces are already out? As long 2 of them arent in the same guys hand (which they shouldnt be since he didnt cap preflop), there is less of a chance that an ace will flop. If this is true, then reraising would be correct. | ||
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