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Server Time: 1/8/2009 4:58:28 AM PACIFIC |
 Improper Hand Payed on UB, randallt, 7. Dec 2003 11:49 | ||
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| I'm posting the following hand that I played on Ultimate Bet in hopes that I can get the situation rectified. I have unsuccessfully e-mailed their staff and been stonewalled. The game was 2-7 triple draw. While it's only $20.00 that is in question, I'm more concerned that their software needs to be fixed. Of course I want the $20.00 as well. Here's the hand: Hand #707361-1125 at Rye ($2/$4 Triple Draw 2-7) Powered by UltimateBet Started at 06/Dec/03 23:32:39 Scooper is at seat 0 with $38.75. rayme is at seat 1 with $304.75. dogsballs is at seat 2 with $195.50. TrappistMonk is at seat 3 with $146. BobNaja is at seat 4 with $32.25. randallt is at seat 5 with $70. The button is at seat 0. rayme posts the small blind of $1. dogsballs posts the big blind of $2. Scooper: -- -- -- -- -- rayme: -- -- -- -- -- dogsballs: -- -- -- -- -- TrappistMonk: -- -- -- -- -- BobNaja: -- -- -- -- -- randallt: 5h 4h 2s Tc Kh First Round: TrappistMonk folds. BobNaja folds. randallt raises to $4. Scooper folds. rayme folds. dogsballs calls. dogsballs takes 3 cards. randallt takes 2 cards. dogsballs: -- -- -- -- -- randallt: 5h 4h 2s Kc 3c Second Round: dogsballs checks. randallt bets $2. dogsballs calls. dogsballs takes 1 card. randallt takes 1 card. dogsballs: -- -- -- -- -- randallt: 5h 4h 2s 3c Th Third Round: dogsballs checks. randallt bets $4. dogsballs calls. dogsballs takes 1 card. randallt takes 1 card. dogsballs: -- -- -- -- -- randallt: 5h 4h 2s 3c Ad Final Round: dogsballs checks. randallt checks. Showdown: dogsballs shows 6h 5s 4s 3h 2d. dogsballs has straight, six high. randallt mucks cards. (randallt has Ad 5h 4h 3c 2s.) Hand #707361-1125 Summary: $1 is raked from a pot of $21. dogsballs wins $20 with straight, six high. ---------------------------------------------------------------- As you can see they paid the six high straight over the nut ace. I would appreciate any and all with your help in rectifying this. | ||
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| I think you're mistaken, Andrew W, 7. Dec 2003 12:18 | ||
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| I think the software is probably fine. Isn't 2-7 lowball the game where the Ace can't count as low, only the high? I'm no expert, I played a couple times with play chips is all. Check the rules, I am pretty sure the Ace is high only in that game. Sorry. | ||
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| Re: I think you're mistaken, randallt, 7. Dec 2003 12:55 | ||
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| You are correct in that aces play as high only. However, straights and flushes are worse than just an ace low. In this case I had what is referred to as a "perfect ace". While he had a six high straight. | ||
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| Re: I think you're mistaken, SpaceAce, 7. Dec 2003 16:38 | ||
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| I'm not an expert on deuce-to-seven lowball but it looks to me like he has Ace low and his opponent has a straight. I believe the Ace low wins that hand. Good luck fixing this. There have been a couple of people on here lately claiming they are getting ignored when trying to settle problems with UltimateBet. SpaceAce | ||
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| Re: Improper Hand Payed on UB, Dezperado, 7. Dec 2003 12:47 | ||
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| Copied from UB's rules page: Hand rankings In Deuce to Seven Triple Draw players try to make the lowest possible 5 card hand. Aces play for high only and deuces play for low. Because you are trying to make the lowest possible hand, straights and flushes count against you. This means that 23456, for example, is a very bad hand. It is not considered a 6-low. It is a straight and is therefore worse than holding AKQJ9. The best possible hand you can make is 23457 with no flush. This hand is called a wheel. The next best hand is 23467, again with no flush. This hand is often referred to as Number 2. Likewise, 23567 is referred to as Number 3 and so on. Because Aces play for high 2345A is not a straight. It is the best possible Ace-low you can make-also called the Nut Ace. 23458 is the Nut 8. 23459 is the Nut 9 and so on. AKQJ9 is the worst possible unpaired hand you can make, since your goal is to make a low hand. 22345 would be the next best hand after that. Trips are worse than pairs. Straights are worse than pairs and trips. Flushes are worse than straights. And full houses are worse than flushes. The worst hand you can hold in this game is a Royal Flush. So, the hand rankings are the inverse of the hand rankings in a regular high game. I don't know how to play that game, but as far as I can tell he made a straight... that's bad? You made a A low...bad, but better than a straight? So you should win. Mike Caro would know this, I think. I know TruePoker has a "Don't warn me if I muck a winning hand" thing. UB too? No idea why anyone would turn THAT on. | ||
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| Re: Improper Hand Payed on UB, randallt, 7. Dec 2003 17:41 | ||
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| UB won't allow you to much a winning hand. It shows automatically. The way the hand history reads it's as if I mucked it, but in reality the computer automatically paid the other hand. | ||
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| Re: Improper Hand Payed on UB, 4 POKER, 7. Dec 2003 18:25 | ||
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| randallt- In 2-7 Lowball, the best hand possible is 2,3,4,5,7, and the hand must not contain a flush. That's why it's called "2-7" Lowball. Flushes and straights count as high hands. Remember, Aces count as HIGH CARDS ALWAYS. In your hand, you held - 2,3,4,5,A. Your opponent held 2,3,4,5,6. Now, in this hand, yes, both of you held straights, so to determine the winning hand when BOTH players are holding a straight, the one with the lowest straight would win. Your hand contained an Ace, and an Ace is *higher* than a Six. You do NOT have a "perfect Ace" because there is no perfect Ace is 2-7 Lowball. Aces are bad cards in this game and they rank the highest out of every other card in the deck, ALWAYS. To simplify it, You do not want to draw an Ace in 2-7, and if you hold an Ace, you want to discard it when you're still drawing. Now, if you can look at the Ace as being even one point higher than a King (which it is), you'll be able to see that a 6 low is better AND lower than an Ace low. Remember, you do not want to hold cards at the end of your last draw that contain an Ace in 2-7 Lowball. 2,3,4,5,8 would be a better hand than 3,4,5,6,A. Again, the eight is lower than the Ace. If you placed the cards in order of their Rank starting from the lowest rank card on up, your hand would read : 3,4,5,6,A. Hope that helps. 4P- | ||
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| But 4 POKER, Dezperado, 7. Dec 2003 18:41 | ||
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| Because Aces play for high 2345A is not a straight Says so on UB rules page. I have no idea if it's correct or not, but that's what they claim. http://www.ultimatebet.com/games/triple_draw2-7.html | ||
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| Re: But 4 POKER, 4 POKER, 7. Dec 2003 18:51 | ||
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| Yup. You are right. 2,3,4,5,A is the lowest "Nut Ace" hand you can hold and it's not considered a straight. That's why he referred to his hand as the perfect Ace. I should have realized "The Perfect Ace" part of my post before I replied; I was too quick on the trigger! But now that doesn't make sense to me then. If the 2,3,4,5,A is not a straight, and obviously a 2,3,4,5,6 IS a straight; then why would the 6 hand win over the nut Ace Hand? Aces are high cards always, I'm aware of that - but straights should be ranked worse than an Ace low, no? Thanks Dez-, and sorry about that randallt. I'm going to look into it because now I'm baffled. Any 2-7 Lowball players out there? 4P- | ||
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| Re: Improper Hand Payed on UB, ADAM THE EXPERT, 7. Dec 2003 20:51 | ||
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| yes, there are indeed problems with the triple draw, on Ultimate Bet I have had my draw card, not given to me, and stuck with only four cards. I have found, that the best way, (oops, I forgot the third person) to cut through all the red tape, on Ultimate Bet (I may conceed with the capital letters, but NEVER about abbreviations) is to speak directly with Annie Duke. Just put her on your "ultimate buddy" list, and then you will be able to see (and hear) when she's at her 4-8 hold em table. Amazingly, she is able to conduct like 9 converstations at the same time, (Adam the Expert suspects, that she has three brains, and six hands, to be able to do this) and is most helpful, about triple draw matters. She even offered to pay me my money herself, if Ultimate Bet did not But, they did. So, Adam suggests that you talk to Annie Duke, and the problem will be resolved | ||
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| Re: Improper Hand Payed on UB, randallt, 7. Dec 2003 21:28 | ||
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| thank you....I played 2-7 with her last night. She was so inundated with IM's that I didn't want to bring it up. If I don't get resolution I will when I see her again. | ||
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