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Server Time: 12/1/2008 4:59:16 PM PACIFIC |
 Basic NL cash game question, iceman5, 6. Dec 2003 18:03 | ||
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| I have pretty limited experience playing NL cash games. Ive been winning but probably more due to their bad play than my good play. I play the $25 buy in (.25/.50). Most of the bets are small .25 up to a dollar or 2 and Ive been able to grind out wins, slowly building my stack and usually ending up the session a winner. I have a basic question about playing a draw. Lets say 3 players limp, I limp with JsTs and it get folded to the BB who raises to .75. Everyone calls. We take the flop 5 way. The pot is about $4 The flop is As 9s 4c. I have the nut flush draw. The BB bets the pot. It gets called in one spot before it gets to me. So I have to call $4 into a $12 pot. 3-1 odds. I sometimes get intimidated in this spot because Ive been playing for an hour at a passive table with small bets and now this guy gets aggressive. This hand will change the outcome of my whole session. I may have been playing for 2 hours and Im up $15. I know what your thinking, you shouldnt be playing with scared money. Thats not what Im talking about. If I lose my $25 buy in, I wont lose any sleep, but I want some sort of money management. I have 2 questions. Do you disregard the amount of money in comparison to previous bets or hands and make the call based on odds only (using long term results as a gauge of winning or losing)? Secondly, in limit this is an easy call, but in NL knowing that if I dont hit on the turn Im facing an even larger bet, how do I calculate the odds? Im 1.8-1 against hitting by the river but only about 5-1 to hit on the turn. If I miss on the turn and he bets another $10 and now the other caller folds, the pot is now $22 waiting for my $10 call reducing my drawing odds. Can someone explain the though process for a situation like this? | ||
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| Re: Basic NL cash game question, jaustin, 6. Dec 2003 18:45 | ||
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| First, you don't have the nut flush draw, so in that particular situation I'd probably fold. The BB probably has an ace and it's possible the caller has a better flush draw, so even if you hit, you could lose the pot. If you had the nut flush draw, I might make the call there depending on the other two players. If they are the type that will pay off your flush then you can call (assuming they have a good amount of money at the table). One other thing to consider is if the players can be moved off a hand. If so, you might think about making a big re-raise with the nut draw. The raise to .75 makes me think he doesn't have three aces, so if you think he'd fold his AK (which is what I'd put him on) you might make this move - of course you also have to consider the other player. | ||
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| Re: Basic NL cash game question, iceman5, 6. Dec 2003 19:49 | ||
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| Well, I screwd that up. I meant for my example to give me the nut flush draw. Lets say I have KsQs instead. My main questions were : how do you figure the odds on a call like this in NL when you know you face another big bet if you miss? And do you put your whole stack in jeopardy like this if the odds call for it after grinding out small wins for quite some time? In a tourney you probably wouldnt want to because if you miss you are out and its probably better to wait for a better spot but what about a cash game? | ||
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| Re: Basic NL cash game question, jaustin, 6. Dec 2003 20:09 | ||
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| The second part of my post pertains to having the nut flush draw. It really depends on your opponents. You want them to pay you off when you hit the flush so you have the correct implied pot odds for what is really a 4:1 draw (38 non spades: 9 spades) as there is little chance you'll see the river unless you hit your flush. However, if your opponents will typically underbet the pot on the turn, you have to take that into consideration as well (i.e. bet only $8 into the $16 pot as this would give you correct current pot odds on a call with great imlied odds). If you're up against an aggressive opponent who will bet the turn strong if the flush misses and won't pay you off when it hits you should fold, but if one of the two will likely stick even if a third spade comes, I'd call. (in the particular situation you gave I'd almost always call with two opponents and getting 3:1 on a 4:1 draw as it's likely the caller has a flush draw as well and will pay you off big time). Basically, against most opponents, I look at this as a 4:1 draw (not 1.86:1) and if I expect the pot to be greater than $16 if I hit the flush on the turn, I'll call. | ||
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| Re: Basic NL cash game question, Meistro, 15. Dec 2003 13:18 | ||
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| Note, in the second example you have 3 options (nut flush draw, straight draw, straight flush draw) off each card. Changes the circumstance completely. | ||
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| Re: Basic NL cash game question, Meistro, 15. Dec 2003 13:19 | ||
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| Note, in the second example you have 3 options (nut flush draw, straight draw, straight flush draw) off each card. Changes the circumstance completely. | ||
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| Re: Basic NL cash game question, Schuster, 7. Dec 2003 01:04 | ||
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| If you've got the nut draw, you can probably take 3 to 1 to see the turn given the implied odds. Note that this situation could be very different if your action did not close the betting round. If your opponents are so afraid that they muck their hand when a 3rd flush card hits and there's a bet, then it's time to start exploiting that instead of actually drawing. Lee | ||
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