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Server Time: 8/30/2008 7:12:21 AM PACIFIC |
 Raising or folding, Blade, 5. Dec 2003 15:27 | ||
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| This is more of a theoretical question than practical one but I would like to get some thoughts on the effect of a no call strategy that is either raising or folding | ||
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| Re: Raising or folding, ReMMy, 5. Dec 2003 18:16 | ||
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| Why? It might be helpful as an excercise to show someone that a calling strategy is a losing one, but not using options available to you when they will earn you more money seams kind of silly. I usually think of raising or folding first, and fall back on calling only if I'm sure that it's the correct move. Just bored and tossing out ideas Blade? =) ReMMy | ||
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| Re: Raising or folding, Blade, 5. Dec 2003 18:27 | ||
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| Yes strictly theory is all. I'm just curious on what the effects would be both on the on doing and the table. For example, I would guess that you would win more hands but lose more money. Also players would either play better and trap you are become extremely passive and weak. More for thinking than application. Basically I was at work it was friday and yes I was bored | ||
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| Re: Raising or folding, ReMMy, 5. Dec 2003 19:08 | ||
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| Well, if I knew that you wouldn't fold then it would be pretty easy to extract maximum value out of every hand I'm in with you, for example, I would start playing any pocket pair since I'm more likely to get extra bets out of you if you hit top pair etc... It would also be great to have you sitting next to me(on either side) since I could capitilize on having you doing my betting/raising for me... | ||
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| Re: Raising or folding, ReMMy, 5. Dec 2003 19:08 | ||
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| Obviously I meant if I knew you wouldn't "call". | ||
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| Re: Raising or folding, Blade, 5. Dec 2003 19:41 | ||
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| Agreed good AND astute players would be able to capitalize on this. However this would not be a straight maniac in that he would raise everything he would simply on either raise (which would mean a great deal more semi-bluffs) or fold. How you determine when to play with him and when to let it go. Also what would the effects of this approach be on a standard loose passive table in which players do not pay attention. Would the proclivity of players to call increase or decrease its effectiveness. Again in no way I am arguing that this has practical implications. I do think though there may be some underlying value in the discussion | ||
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| Re: Raising or folding, Schuster, 7. Dec 2003 01:55 | ||
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| I hadn't really thought about this before cause there's not a lot of practical application, but I suspect that if someone were just starting out at poker, and you eliminated the choice of calling for one session, it might jumpstart them into realizing that they are probably calling too much and should play more aggressively when their hand is good. It wouldn't be good for long term strategy, of course, but a one time thing might help them to see the light. Lee | ||
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| Re: Raising or folding, KevinK, 7. Dec 2003 23:55 | ||
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| On a table weak like that, raising doesn't seem to have an effect on them. I think people would be more even more inclined to call. They will do so since its investing say, 5$ to win a pot of 50 assuming all ten stayed in. It could be a losing proposition to just raise or fold with those not paying attention but if you were to win a pot with everyone in I guarantee it would be huge. Just be sure to know the risks going in. | ||
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| Re: Raising or folding, rdale, 6. Dec 2003 03:34 | ||
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| I joke with my younger brother those are the only two options, but that is because he is a classic flop addicted calling station. Outside of kidding my brother it is the basis for a lot of my play in no limit, if it is good enough to bet on, it is good enough to raise, and if there are scary draws it is good to bet in a way that only super math challenged gamblers would want to call. Raising or folding as a hard fast rule in limit hold'em, as any "hard fast" poker tactics, would be fundamentally flawed. The game is set up for you to try to suck out. But in no limit, you control the odds, and either raising or folding is often the right play to make and calling the wrong one. The only time I really feel comfortable calling in no limit is when I have the nuts and someone is doing the betting for me, or someone has made it cheap enough for me to try to suck out. Usually calling for me means I'm behind and trying to catch up, or I'm unsure if the a pocket overpair is good or if I'm dealing with two pair, and raising in this situation often lets you know where you stand. How often in no limit do you really get the odds to call? Only time calling someone down has really worked for me is against a passive player content to color in the lines of the betting structures minimum bets to try to suck out. I know I try to make it as tough a decision as possible by raising when my hand is vulnerable, and there are more times that the hand is vulnerable than invincible. | ||
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| Re: Raising or folding, SpaceAce, 7. Dec 2003 01:43 | ||
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| Sounds like a recipe for giant swings to me. Mostly downward would be my guess. You'd be folding your "might win" hands and scaring people away from your "will win" hands. I think the overall trend would be downward with occasional gigantic swings upward due to the proliferation of second-best hand players out there. I like the raise or fold tactic when it's appropriate but sometimes you _might_ have the best hand and you want a cheap showdown. Sometimes you're drawing to the best hand but you need a free card worse than you need an extra bet in the pot. SpaceAce | ||
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| Re: Raising or folding, Banning, 8. Dec 2003 00:35 | ||
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| I think this would be an awesome strategy to try out some time, simply as a one time thing to do to learn about it. It won't work very well at all when playing against a really aggresive player because in those situations you want to call and let him bet for you, so calling is more appropriate. But at a table where there is alot of passive play. I would bet when my hand was good and fold when bet into. Those passive players only bet when they got good hands anyhow. so folding will make you lose less. the only problem is with drawing hands. If one were to never call, one shouldn't be playing suited connectors very often. So one should only be playing high cards. If one were to try out this no calling thing, maybe try out playing Phil Hellmuth's top ten hands only. AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88,77, AK, AQ. Bet like crazy and raise alot, or fold. | ||
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