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Server Time: 10/11/2008 11:06:26 PM PACIFIC |
 could i have done anything different?, maniacmath13, 3. Dec 2003 17:51 | ||
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| im in a no limit holdem tournament, 20 dollar entry fee. The money isnt given out till the top 10. 14 people left, and im 5th out of 14. at this point im playing really conservative, to make sure i atleast finish in the money, but im delt ace ace. i dont see how i could fold this, so i bet about 1/3 of my chips on it. A very loose player with quite a few chips calls my raise. flop comes out ace two two, he puts me all in, and i call. he turns up pocket deuces, and im outta the tournament. anyone think they woulda played differently? | ||
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| Re: could i have done anything different?, SASO, 3. Dec 2003 22:03 | ||
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| Hey Buddy- sorry to hear about your elimination. But-- I feel that you were overzealous with your play. I am assuming that since you were in a pretty good chip count, that you may have been trying to steal the blinds. The question you have to ask yourself is what were the players in better position like? Especially- the button and blinds? I'll bet you 3 - 1 odds the person who put you all in was one of the blinds or button. A strong raise on an Ace high at the final table (full table) can work. But, make sure you know who's in better position (style) and what stacks they have. The pocket ducks, who you said was loose, obviously was a chip leader since you lost- but I would figure a player like that would call an all on a weak hand (especially low pocket pairs). Thats how he made it to the final table anyway. He got lucky on the flop and you were, as we all would have been, blind that pocket duces were a possibility- this is due to you not puting him on anything at the flop except pocket pairs (other than aces or duces). You probably figured that he a pocket pair, nothing, --- the worse thing could have been that he had an ace with a better kicker than you. But if that were the case, he may have pre-floped raised you to an all in. The play for you was to raise moderatly at the pre-flop, then after the flop- check raise him (assuming he would bet when he made quads, but not heavy since he would attempt to trap). When you check raised him- he'd probably move all in- then you'd have a better idea of his hand and if it was worth your possible elimination. -SASO | ||
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| Re: could i have done anything different?, Pale Ale, 4. Dec 2003 14:07 | ||
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| "at this point im playing really conservative, to make sure i atleast finish in the money, but im delt ace ace." SASO...Did you see the second Ace? PA | ||
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| Re: could i have done anything different?, SASO, 5. Dec 2003 13:54 | ||
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| By reading your senario- honestly, the only thing I would have put the opponent on would be a pocket pair (medium strength) or Ace. The only thing I'd be worried would have been an Ace with a better kicker than I- or the dreaded slow play of the 2 remaining Aces (he having flopped Aces full with pocket Aces) That would suck- but your probability laws were totally against that - this is just one of those situations where probability is tossed out the window and you got the short end of the stick. You played it right, its just that your opponent played a poor hand (pocket 2's) and didn't respect your raise - he got very lucky, and realistically, thats what he was banking on- a hidden set of 2's (instead he got the shock of his life with the quads). The only thing I can suggest is for you to try and pick up on a tell or two- it may have been difficult to pick up on a set- but quads! His heart must have been going a mile a minute. I found Caro's book on Poker tells to be beneficial (if he looks away after seeing the flop as if he's not interested in the cards, or immediately looks down at his stack to see how much he has for an all-in, etc.) I don't care if he was the winner of 100 tournaments- a shock like that would have to show some kind of tell! SASO | ||
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| Re: could i have done anything different?, Formless, 3. Dec 2003 23:24 | ||
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| I think you played it fine and got incredibly unlucky. SASO's point about it looking like a steal is valid, however. An alternate strategy is to limp with the pocket rockets. They are worth gambling with here, I think. Hope that someone behind you raises with something like 22 so you can limp reraise all in and take it down uncontested, but if it gets checked to the BB that's OK too, you've got a great hand, and can fold to a flop of 6s7s9c if there is any heat. | ||
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| Re: could i have done anything different?, SCOTT FRANCIS, 4. Dec 2003 06:28 | ||
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| First, I play a lot of these tourneys and the money is in top 3. Regardless of your chip count you were not going to have a chance at a top 5 or top 3 finish without putting your money in the pot. Blinds and antes are too high and the people taking chances are usually doubling up so they pass you pretty quickly.( in two or 3 rounds without taking a good pot you'd probably be in 9th or 10th place just from sitting there) Having said that, in any of the 3 ways I would have played AA here preflop probably wouldn't have mattered unless he would have folded to an all-in. However I played the hand, when I saw the flop of A22 all of my money would be in the pot. If he happens to have the only two card combo that beats me head up then so be it. I can't think of a better situation to get all my money in the pot, double up, and now put myself in great position to win the tourney. Scott | ||
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| Re: could i have done anything different?, SmellsLikeVictory, 4. Dec 2003 07:26 | ||
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| Not really. Sure you could have raised more or less preflop, whatever, you can't possibly think of folding aces just to avoid confrontation and try and get in the money. That's a loser's mentality, your goal is to get to top 3. You have to be willing to go down in flames with great hands, even on the bubble. Aggressive play is what wins these things and those who aren't afraid to bust out on the bubble usually get deeper in the money than the timid ones just looking to squeak in and get their buy-in and some loose change back.. On the flop, how you gonna fold 2nd nuts? There's no way, Phil Ivey, Layne Flack and every other great player would have done the same. You were destined to lose this pot. | ||
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| Re: could i have done anything different?, KJo, 4. Dec 2003 13:37 | ||
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| You did nothing wrong. If you can't put all your chips in with those cards and that flop, you'd have no business playing tournaments. Eli on 3. Dec 2003 17:51 maniacmath13 wrote: > im in a no limit holdem tournament, 20 dollar entry fee. The money isnt given > out till the top 10. 14 people left, and im 5th out of 14. at this point im > playing really conservative, to make sure i atleast finish in the money, but im > delt ace ace. i dont see how i could fold this, so i bet about 1/3 of my chips > on it. A very loose player with quite a few chips calls my raise. flop comes > out ace two two, he puts me all in, and i call. he turns up pocket deuces, and > im outta the tournament. anyone think they woulda played differently? | ||
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| Re: could i have done anything different?, Pale Ale, 4. Dec 2003 14:02 | ||
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| At first read I was in the "shit happens...you played it perfectly category." Upon rereading I noticed something. Lack of info. While you are in 5th out of fourteen, you don't tell us how many of the bigger stacks there are on your table and where they are in relation to you in this hand. Also you mention betting a third of your chips, but don't tell us what that means to your opponents. What percentage of chips would it have been to your opponent (s). Nothing is going to change the fact that your opponent got a miracle flop and you got screwed. The only thing to second guess here was what message you were trying to convey here preflop...and whether or not the amount you bet had that same meaning to your opponent. PA | ||
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| Re: could i have done anything different?, maniacmath13, 4. Dec 2003 17:17 | ||
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| yeah sorry bout not givin all the info. as i remember it, i had around 50k with blinds at 5k or so. i was 2nd in chips at the table, with 7 players at the table. The chip leader of the table (the one with pocket 2's), had around 100 k and he wasnt in the big blind, but a couple spots afterwords. I had the dealer button. he called the blind. I bet around 20k, the blinds quicky folded, and he called the bet. and the rest is history. | ||
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