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Server Time: 8/28/2008 12:46:31 AM PACIFIC |
 How much to bet out in a NL game when your on a draw??, Eman, 3. Dec 2003 12:10 | ||
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| recently i have been having trouble with draws in NL. Draws can absolutley kill you in both NL cash games and NL tourneys. Lets say you have J10s and two other plays are in the pot with you. Flop comes: K 5 2 with two of your suit. Your first to act with a couple aggressive players behind. You can almost be sure that if either is holding AK or KQ or evern KJ will come out betting to eliminate drawing hands. Do you think betting out in this situation is a good play. Or should you check and see what the betting is when it gets back to you and decide if youll have odds to draw out? These types of hands have been Killing me... | ||
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| Re: How much to bet out in a NL game when your on a draw??, shorn, 3. Dec 2003 12:40 | ||
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| Check and fold to a big bet. The problem is that you aren't drawing to the nuts with JTs. And, there are no extra outs for you because there is a King on the board, so if you hit a J or T, it is probably not good. The only way I play non-nut draws in these games after the flop is if (1) it is really cheap, (2) my opponent is very deep in chips, and (3) he or she will call off a lot of those chips with a second best hand IF I hit the hand. Those situations do not come up very often. | ||
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| Re: How much to bet out in a NL game when your on a draw??, ReMMy, 3. Dec 2003 12:52 | ||
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| Eman, In general you should always check these hands and depending on the size of the bet, number of callers, and pot size, see if you are getting proper odds to call for your flush. Remember that multiple passive callers may mean someone is drawing for a higher flush. The only times I like to bet out on a draw is when the table is passive and doesn't like to raise. This means i'm betting out $2 into a $10 pot because I think I will get 1 or 2 calls and no raise, whereas if I was to check someone might bet $4 or $5 with top pair. This only works at certain tables though. If you're only up against small stacks who can't raise you, then it might present a good semi bluff opportunity, either you win the pot right there, or if they call you get to see your 2 cards for the draw free. Again chip stacks and pot sizes need to be correct for this to work. Good times, ReMMy | ||
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| Re: How much to bet out in a NL game when your on a draw??, Jordan, 3. Dec 2003 13:24 | ||
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| There is no easy answer to this but I've learned that drawing really kills you in NL as you said. You should rarely, rarely draw because as Cloutier says "when they're drawing you're always the favorite". (One time I guess this isn't true is if you have 4 to a flush and an open end straight draw and then you're the favorite assuming your draws are to the best straight and flush hand out there.) Anytime you are putting large sums of the money into the pot, you want to be the favorite, not drawing to the POTENTIAL for a better hand. Most good players are going to raise if they hold a hand and push you off your draw. If you are playing against people who aren't going to raise your bet and make you pay for you draw, or might even possibly fold the best hand, a guess a bet might be in order. Otherwise draws are better played from the back after you've gotten the right odds. I'd stay away from most draws in NL. You're really draining your bankroll that way. | ||
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| Re: How much to bet out in a NL game when your on a draw??, Aisthesis, 4. Dec 2003 04:35 | ||
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| True, unless you have a really passive table, it's very hard to have acceptable odds to draw. And particularly the flush, because it's so obvious to everyone, is unlikely to offer any additional implied odds. With a straight, it's usually a lot easier to get top pair to call if you make it. However, I do think semi-bluffing can often be a very good play with the draw. In this case, though, I agree that it's probably unwise since you're out of position and you're not drawing to the nut flush, and the K is a pretty likely card for one of the two other players to have. | ||
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| Re: How much to bet out in a NL game when your on a draw??, Blazman, 4. Dec 2003 05:38 | ||
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| You need to catch 2 perfect cards for the nuts, that being any Q AND any A. You also have the flush draw against 2 other players I'd guess a flush to be good, so you have 15 outs. 9 for the flush 3 queens and 3 aces. Not a bad proposition, in a limit game you call any bet. But in NL early position I dont like it. Now you see the value of being in late position especially in a NL game. In early position I would check and call anything that will not seriously dent your stack. Otherwise you should fold. | ||
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| Re: How much to bet out in a NL game when your on a draw??, kennycatkiller, 4. Dec 2003 16:17 | ||
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| unless you are in the blind (or the game is down to only a few players), why would you play JT suited up front in NL? they are definitely not premium starting cards!! for example, you could flop the flush and LOSE to a higher flush. but, having gotten involved, you have a real dilemma. you would like to take off another card if you can do so cheaply. It seems likely that if you check, one of your opponents will bet you off the hand. on the other hand, if you bet a substantial amount, you may win the pot right there. how about going all in? kennycatkiller | ||
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