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Server Time: 12/1/2008 4:35:53 PM PACIFIC |
 Why is it so hard to fold pocket pairs post-flop, Highflyin3484k, 2. Dec 2003 15:02 | ||
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| I see it too many times, a player will have QQ and flop will come A K 4, now granted that is a horrible flop for you but why is it so hard to fold, people will just cold call with QQ, b/c they "cant fold queens" to me that is the mark of ignorance. Also flop is K J 7 you have 10 10 and there is a bet and a raise in front of you. Ok back to the point, my whole reason for posting this is to get people's opinions on why it is so hard to fold pocket pairs..... is it because we so rarely get them (good ones).... is it that we dont want to be outplayed with them, | ||
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| Re: Why is it so hard to fold pocket pairs post-flop, iceman5, 2. Dec 2003 15:06 | ||
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| I think its because when you look down and see QQ or KK you have already decided that the pot is yours. Especially when you havent played a hand for a while. Thats one reason I started playing 2 tables at a time. Its much easier to fold fold fold when playing 2 tables because you are playing more of the time. I know some people think you lose some of your edge if you dont watch the game as closely as you would with one table but after a while you see a lot of the same players anyway. Sometimes there are 3 or more players playing both tables that Im playing. | ||
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| Re: Why is it so hard to fold pocket pairs post-flop, Blue Sky, 2. Dec 2003 15:51 | ||
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| Like Iceman5 said, alot of poker players decide in advance of the flop that they have a great hand and then play it out to the river no matter what their opponents are telling them through their bets. Your right way to many people concentrate on what hands should win (pre and post flop) and not what will win. I love to see fish show down a pair of fives on a double paired board where 8's the lowest pair and a straight and a flush is both available...I'm Just kidding to go that far but we all have seen similar before and then the fish wants to tell you a bad beat story about it. | ||
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| Re: Why is it so hard to fold pocket pairs post-flop, KevinK, 2. Dec 2003 16:07 | ||
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| Easy answer. Because the average player can't throw good hands. I'll admit I was terrible about that, calling with pocket pairs J through K despite knowing I was beat just because of the slight possibility that I could spike a trip. In time you begin to find it easier to do such. Last night I had pocket jacks but folded them to junk suited cards, which ended up winning with a flush. Tough as hell to do but shows you have some control. | ||
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| Re: Why is it so hard to fold pocket pairs post-flop, NewSchool, 3. Dec 2003 08:08 | ||
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| Pocket pairs, especially high pocket pairs are a major false sense of security for a lot of people. I cant even count how many times I have seen someone with pocket aces call everything even though he only has a pair and its obvious someone else has at least two pair. A lot of times when I get a high pocket pair I never allow myself to get excited, or feel I deserve to win. Put it this way, if you have QQ, and the flop has a K and no Q, and there are 5 people in the hand, chances are youve lost, save ur money. Just my $.02 | ||
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| Re: Why is it so hard to fold pocket pairs post-flop, Jordan, 3. Dec 2003 08:56 | ||
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| I think the funniest thing about them is you want people to call (but not too many people) and you want people in the hand (as long as they don't draw out on you). It's not hard to fold pocket pairs when there is 1 or 2 overcards and multiple people in the hand. That's not my problem. My problem is when I'm heads-up and I have JJ and the flop comes with a King. I'm first to act in front of a loose aggressive player who respects my play but isn't afraid to bluff me. If I bet thinking my jacks might still be good, he could raise me. Yet when I check I'm showing weakness. Or he could have AK, it's so hard to tell. This exact situation happened last night. He had AQ. I checked the flop. He bet 20 bucks and I folded to no pair. He had 2 overcards and a gutshot. | ||
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| Re: Why is it so hard to fold pocket pairs post-flop, KevinK, 3. Dec 2003 13:21 | ||
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| I hear you totally. If you bet out, everyone will fold(applies to limit and NL). If you smooth call, everyone will stay in and draw you out. Its a tough road to walk with solid cards. I think its best to get and bet those in MP if the game is no fold'em. You get the people who limped in to stay in as immediate underdogs. At the same time, you've probably made it expensive for those in late position to call. Just my thoughts and I'm sure others have better ideas than I do. | ||
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| Re: Why is it so hard to fold pocket pairs post-flop, Aisthesis, 3. Dec 2003 23:05 | ||
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| Heads-up with just one overcard I'd bet the JJ pretty much every time, I think. If a loose-aggressive player raises you back, I'd say it's pretty much a judgment call. Depending on the betting, your opponent also would have to worry about your possibly having AA, KK or AK, I would think. If you've got several opponents in the hand or two overcards, different story. But while the tendency is no doubt indeed to keep the pocket pairs longer than one should (I've definitely done that, too!), I don't think they have to always make overpair or the set in order to be playable. | ||
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| Re: Why is it so hard to fold pocket pairs post-flop, magnus, 4. Dec 2003 13:40 | ||
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| I generally try and think of what I would do if one of my pocket cards was on the board and I just had one of them with a good kicker in the pocket. This allows me to not get married to my PP just because they are a good staring hand. Taking the JJ pockets with the A K x flop, how would you play it if you only had J9 (I know it's not a good kicker, but I don't want the str8 to come into consideration here) with a board of A K J? Would you stick around for 2-3 bets? I know I would release that hand real quick if the table wasn't full of maniacs.... -Magnus | ||
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