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Server Time: 11/20/2008 3:28:19 PM PACIFIC |
 Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, rambler, 1. Dec 2003 22:10 | ||
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| I was curious about this as I think i've been guilty of the "I can't fold an ace preflop disease." What do you guys usually do when you have an ace and something less desirealble off suit other than the obvious fold in early position and play in late position? Thanks for teh help in advance. | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, Blade, 1. Dec 2003 22:13 | ||
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| I fold them almost always from every position except the blinds | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, Piers Majestyk, 1. Dec 2003 22:22 | ||
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| Yes many people out here play those hands and they are some of my most loved poker players. They continue to put food on the table:) | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, Palinya, 1. Dec 2003 22:31 | ||
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| Ax is crappy for a couple reasons. Not only do you have no kicker, you only have 1 card that is worth pairing. With AK or AQ you have a strong hand if you pair the K or the Q. With A6, this means you have to hit one of three outs on the flop (the A) and even if you do it might not hold up. With AK you have 6 outs on the flop and the kicker will stand up if nobody gets 2 pair or better. With AQ, you still have 6 outs and the kicker will probably hold up if you get an A. It will definitely hold up if you get a Q but now you have to worry about a K falling. With AJ, you have 6 outs. The kicker will hold up most of the time but you now have K and Q to worry about if you get the J and the kicker is a lot less reliable. As you see, as the kicker goes down it get a lot less desirable. Once you get down to the A9-A6 range you only have the 3 outs. Not to mention AK-AT gives you possible straight outs too. A6-A9 is weak not only because it is a crappy kicker but also because it takes away all the other options that a good kicker provides | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, ReMMy, 1. Dec 2003 22:36 | ||
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| on 1. Dec 2003 22:10 rambler wrote: > I was curious about this as I think i've been guilty of the "I can't fold an ace > preflop disease." What do you guys usually do when you have an ace and something > less desirealble off suit other than the obvious fold in early position and play > in late position? > Thanks for teh help in advance. Rambler, You absolutely MUST start folding these hands if you want to be a profitable player. I won't even play them suited unless there are already 2 or 3 limpers in the pot. One of the easiest ways to spot a weak uneducated player is to find someone who plays any ace in any position... Good times, ReMMy | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, Mark Gregorich, 2. Dec 2003 00:12 | ||
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| About the only time I play these hands is when it's folded to me in late position (on or next to the button), and the blinds are tight players. Then I raise. Of course, this goes for a good chunk of the rest of the deck, too. Mark | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, Raodwarior, 2. Dec 2003 09:04 | ||
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| You stole my post Mark...LOL But that is about the only time I can ever see myself playing that hand as well. The blinds need to be real tight too. | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, Boftx, 2. Dec 2003 10:06 | ||
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| I am going to put my foot in my mouth with this, but..... In the 6-handed games I like to play I have found Ax go up in value under some circumstances. I feel that these hands gain value only because in a 6-handed game there is much less probability that there is another A at the table. The charts I have seen show a less than 50% chance of someone else having an A. At a full 10-handed table I hit the auto-fold button as fast as I can. Jim . | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, Blazman, 2. Dec 2003 10:24 | ||
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| I am the opposite of Adam the Expert, he considers himself second best I consider myself second worst poker player/expert. Read my advise and laugh to yourself and say "ha he knows nothing" Yeah, SHORTHANDED with 6 players I'll play an Ace. If on the button I'll even raise if I'm holding A-x suited, A-2 A-3 A-4 A-5 or A-10 thru A-k (depending on position). Then depending on how the flop comes out and the other players respond then I determine what to do. If I hit an A on the flop I bet/raise to see where I'm at, if I pull the straight/flush or a draw I check or call in an attempt to trap someone. Looks like others do not follow this strategy (maybe that's why it works). I also really suck at poker and you maybe should not take advise from me. If you do not acknowledge that I am the second worst player in the poker world I will never respond again.. -Blazman | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, Palinya, 2. Dec 2003 11:57 | ||
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| A large part of the problem with Ax is you only have 3 outs that you need to hit. It's not just that the kicker won't hold up. With AK, AQ you have 6 outs and the kicker holds... this more than doubles your chance of winning. It's true that often a pair of aces with a low kicker will win the pot but there are so many times that an A won't flop that it isn't really worth playing it (especially since you can't be confident in the rare case it does it) You have 3 outs with a single A. This isn't much better odds than playing a small pair with only 2 outs. When you do hit the A, it is pretty obvious and most people will fold unless they have an ace too or a good draw. At least with a small pair it is well hidden that you have a set. Basically with Ax you have the following.... 1. A hand that has a low probability of improving 2. A hand that if you do happen to hit it, most people will fold and you will get a small pot which doesn't justify the low probability you had to improve if you have them beat 3. A hand that if you don't have them beat and play it to the river you will usually lose. So most of the time you will fold after the flop. Some of the time you will take down a small pot. Some of the time you will lose a lot to draws or a better kicker.... it just doesn't sound very profitable. Do you have poker tracker? If you do, check out what your expected value is on these hands. I have about 30,000 hands in poker tracker and I have shown a negative expected value for all the Ax hands that I have tried to play. | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, noiseboy, 2. Dec 2003 13:38 | ||
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| yes, but he's mostly talking about short handed. In a short handed game, you can often take down a pot with just A high or any small pair, so even if you only catch the x on the flop, that will often be enough. You also don't worry so much about a better A out there, you still worry a little bit, but when most flops are taken 2 or 3 handed, it's not as big of a concern as in a ten handed game where Axo goes in the muck almost always. In a ten handed game, you might play it on the button when nobody else has entered the pot for a raise, not just as a steal, but because the blinds likely don't have anything better and you have position on them. | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, Palinya, 2. Dec 2003 14:20 | ||
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| oops, how did I miss 'SHORTHANDED' in all caps | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, shorn, 2. Dec 2003 12:42 | ||
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| These hands can be played in only a few instances: 1. As a steal hand in the cutoff or on the button if no one has yet entered. 2. As a raising hand in the cutoff or on the button if only 1 other player has called from a late position AND you know him or her to be a weak after the flop player. 3. From the big blind getting a free play or against a very loose steal raiser. 4. In the SB when you only have to complete or possibly as a re-raising hand against the most incompetent loose steal raiser (very rare). Other than the above, throw them away without hesitation. | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, KevinK, 2. Dec 2003 13:02 | ||
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| For me it depends on the circumstance. If I have amassed a strong stack or in late position, I will see a flop or two with a kicker lower than 8 if I can get it cheap. I don't encourage that kind of play but I have experience with marginal hands paired with a tight but goofy table image. In general, you do want to fold them because they can be beat easily by a better ace or any pocket if the flop misses. On an interesting note, though, I had Ah Qc and called an Ac 8d. It lost when four clubs hit the board to my made straight on the turn. Good way to look at it is investing and your pocket is what you have to work with. The weak cards are starting from scratch and strong cards are like beachfront property. Sometimes the rundown shack becomes a corporation and tides cover the beach but things usually play out right. Now just for fun, I'm going to now come up with a story for how the hand played out businesswise(I told you I'm goofy). | ||
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| Re: Does anyone out there play A,6-9o??, ADAM THE EXPERT, 3. Dec 2003 04:43 | ||
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| Sorry rambler, an ace x offsuit, is never playable. It is the worst hand to play, even worse than 72!!!! The reason for that is, if you have a seven deuce, you know that you have to make trips or at least two pair, before you have anything. With ace small, and a flopped ace, you'll think you actually have something. If anyone calls, they either will have a better ace, or some good draw. It's really really hard to win the pot, much less make any big money. Even if you flop aces up, sometimes you will face a bigger aces up already, and even if not, the big kicker will have around a 30 percent chance, to out draw, (assuming that the third flop card, is bigger than your two pair card) Example, you have A 6 off, and the flop is A 6 9. If up against AJ, he can hit a jack or nine to beat you, plus Pair the turn card-if that card is higher than a six. And remember, it's 50-1 against even flopping aces up, in the first place. But wait a minute, Adam the Expert. What about on the button, with no one else in: The concept of "stealing the blinds" has been way way way way overrated by other so-called experts. Hardly anyone will ever let you have their big blind, these days, and if they do, then you should get the hell out of that game. No money can be made, in such a tight game. You'll never know if they flopped a pair, or not, and if you flop an ace, it's fairly easy to have someone with say Ace ten, that was not strong enough to reraise. Adam the Expert teaches that it's far far far far far far better to go for the "Steal" with something like a 10 -8 suited, or some hand that will be less likely to be "dominated" when you flop your pair, and has reasonable potential to make a straight or flush. Also, it will help your image greatly, to be seen raising with such a hand. Now, if the players in the blinds, have exhibited a strong willingness to not defend their blinds, then you may go ahead and raise with ace rag IF AND ONLY IF, NO ONE ELSE HAS ENTERED THE POT. even then, if you don't flop an ace or at least a six, with only one overcard ( 9 6 2) you're better off being "done with it" If the blinds are likely to fold, then it's okay to risk 20 to with 15 (in 10-20 hold em) but, the last thing you want to do, is lose 90 bucks, in an attempt to "steal the blinds" Hey, I'm telling too much, I'd better save something for my books. Notice, by the way, that ace rag, does not even make group 8, so throw that trash in the muck, where it belongs. Once in a while, you may elect to play a A 2 through A5, just to project the image, that you're an idiot player. These hands, are actually better than A 6 and A 7 , as you may flop a wheel, which is more significant, than the sligtly larger kicker. Now, once in a great while, you may play A9, if the table lis full of "live ones" this is the ABSOLUTE MINUMIM ace hand, where your nine, just may beat someone, who hasan't read this post, and still plays ace rag. BUT I MEAN ONCE IN A WHILE, LIKE ONE EVERY TEN TIMES YOU GET THE HAND. GO GET 'EM A.T.E. | ||
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