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Server Time: 8/28/2008 12:49:28 AM PACIFIC |
 Is anyone crushing the 5/10 on PartyPoker?, Chris W, 29. Nov 2003 19:37 | ||
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| Talking with two friends with a history of success at 5/10 on party poker I noticed a puzzling trend. All three of us had been winning heavily ($10,000 +) prior to the beginning of September. Since then all three of us have struggled to post small wins. This in itself is not that surprising, frustrating as it is. The odd thing is that it seems that nobody has been winning heavily in recent months. Unfortunately, I did not have poker tracker during the good months I've only had it since late August and my friends got it around the same time. Between us we have a database of nearly 100,000 hands since the beginning of September. Now here is the strange thing: including the three of us there are only a grand total of EIGHT players who have won more than $1,000 in that time. We have over 100 different players we've played 1000 + hands with. This would suggest that most players are clustered around break-even with most of the money going to the rake. It's difficult to understand why this is. It would seem that mediocrity is the best one can hope for at this limit ... but given the quality of play this is very surprising. I see plenty of good players on party even though the vast majority are weak. Are we all unlucky? I suppose there are some possible explanations but none of them are very compelling ... 1. The 5/10 games are actually tougher than I believe them to be (most days I think a trained monkey could beat these games but I suppose it's possible) 2. By selecting soft games we limit contact with the types of players that you would expect to win consistently (but these players probably also target these games so we should bump into them often enough) 3. THIS SITE IS RIGGED!!!!!!!! LOL sorry I couldn't resist. This is what people accuse party of doing, skew the odds so that the bad players lose less and the good players win less but it's hard to believe it's actually happening. So if anyone has poker tracker and can confirm or dispute this trend I'd be interested to hear your results. I am also very interested in hearing people's thoughts on whether the 5/10 is still a lucrative limit or if maybe it's time for a change. Good luck at the tables! Chris | ||
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| Re: Is anyone crushing the 5/10 on PartyPoker?, Squaliform, 30. Nov 2003 09:52 | ||
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| It is highly unlikely that you and your friends are up $10,000 on Party Poker. One, I may believe but not three. Especially on a 5-10 table. Wise up. | ||
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| Re: Is anyone crushing the 5/10 on PartyPoker?, ReMMy, 30. Nov 2003 15:27 | ||
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| Well lets start by saying that a good player can win 2 big bets an hour, which is extremely reasonable. Lets also assume that they play an avg of 15 hours a week, which is again very very reasonable. Over the course of 1 year a player would make $15,600. Now lets assume the player is addicted to poker or plays professionally. If they were to put in 40 hours a week, this would work out to $41,600. Keep in mind that many players avg much higher than 2 BB's an hour. $10k sounds reasonable to me... Good times, ReMMy | ||
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| Re: Is anyone crushing the 5/10 on PartyPoker?, Chris W, 30. Nov 2003 16:45 | ||
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| I'm not sure what your belief in my results has to do with answering my question but I can assure you we actually have won this much and more. It's not that difficult to average $40 an hour if you're a good player given the horrible quality of play by the average player. Consider that many low limits players in the B&M games can average 1.5BB/hr even with higher rates and tokes cutting into profits. Assuming you can get twice as many hands that already puts you near 3BB/hr. If you play multiple tables or are very selective when picking tables it's not difficult to imagine making upwards of $40 an hour. So all you have to believe is that we've put in 250 + hours. | ||
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| Re: Is anyone crushing the 5/10 on PartyPoker?, PairTheBoard, 30. Nov 2003 17:38 | ||
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| There has been a definite decline in overall average pot sizes at PP over the last 6 months for 5-10, 3-6, and 2-4 games. imo, games with large average pots are almost always the most profitable. I know I certainly do better in them. 6 months ago the average 5-10 pots started in the 70's with some in the 80's and 90's. Now you are lucky to get into one in the 70's. With the 3-6 games they used to rarely fall much below 50 and would have several to choose from in the 60's. Now you see them in the 40's and even 30's. The lush 2-4 games in the 40's used to be plentiful and are now hard to find. This is exactly the thing that happenned when Holdem first burst on the scene years ago when S&M were cleaning up and before they wrote their book. It's an ecosystem and evolution is at work. The species of players improves. We will probably keep getting inflow of contributors as this current TV poker fad continues. But long term there is only one real solution for aspiring pro's. Improve your game. There will always be poker profits for World Class Players. I don't think the same can be said for those of us in the subminor leagues though. | ||
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| Re: Is anyone crushing the 5/10 on PartyPoker?, Chris W, 1. Dec 2003 17:24 | ||
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| Yes that's a good observation, it's definitely harder to get a good game although if you're patient you can still find your way into great games. I wonder if the boom in new players happened in the spring while the recent increase online has been from more seasoned live players moving into the on-line arena. | ||
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| Re: Is anyone crushing the 5/10 on PartyPoker?, ADAM THE EXPERT, 1. Dec 2003 18:34 | ||
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| DEAR CHRIS HISTORICALLY, FIVE TEN, HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE "LAND OF THE HARD ROCKS" THIS HAS BEEN TRUE, FOR TWO REASONS: FIVE TEN, IS THE ONLY GAME (OTHER THAN ONE, TWO) THAT USES A "ONE CHIP, TWO CHIP" BETTING STRUCTURE. ROCKS, ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE NUMBER OF CHIPS IN THE POT. OF COURSE, WITH THE INTERNET, WE DON'T HAVE A LARGE VOLUME OF CHIPS IN THE POT, SO THIS REASON IS MOOT, FOR INTERNET PLAY. YOU HAVE TO ASK YOUR SELF "WHAT IS THE PROFILE, OF THE AVERAGE PERSON, PLAYING A PARTICULAR LIMIT"? FIVE TEN, IS THE PREFERRED LIMIT, OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SERIOUS ABOUT POKER, BUT NOT TO THE POINT WHERE THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING. TO FIVE TEN PLAYERS, THE LIMIT THEY ARE PLAYING, REPRESENTS REAL MONEY, BILL-PAYING MONEY. IT'S ALSO TOO LOW, TO ATTRACT THE "MONEY PEOPLE" WHO ONLY WANT TO GAMBLE UP, MONEY BE DAMNED. A LIVE ONE (SAY HE'S A 250,000 A YEAR DENTIST) IS COMPLETELY UNINTERESTED IN FIVE TEN, AS HE WILL NOT BE "THRILLED" BY EVEN THE BIGGEST OF POTS. AND, FIVE TEN, IS TOO BIG FOR THE "POOR LIVE ONES" ALL THAT LEAVES YOU WITH, IS THE ROCKS. NOW, AS FAR AS THIS SITE BEING "RIGGED", WELL, NOW THAT ADAM THE EXPERT IS OFFICIALLY A POKER CELEBRITY, (WELL, OK, A QUASI-CELEBRITY, BUT'S THAT'S AS LOW AS I GO) I CANNOT REVEAL MY TRUE THOUGHTS. BUT, ASSUMING THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO EVEN WRITE THE SOFTWARE THAT WOULD IDENTIFY HOPELESS PLAYERS, AND ARRANGE FOR THEM TO GET CERTAIN CARDS, CONSIDER THIS: AN EDUCATED ESTIMATE OF THIS SITES EARNINGS, BASED ON THE CURRENT AMOUNT OF PLAYERS, IS WELL OVER FIVE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. THAT'S A HALF BILLION MY FRIENDS. IF THEY KNEW HOW, AND THOUGHT THEY COULD GET AWAY WITH IT, THERE IS NOT A PERSON ON EARTH WHO WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING, FOR THAT KIND OF MONEY. MONTHS AGO, I HAD MY DOUBTS ON THIS. BUT THE FAR AS I'LL GO, PUBLICLY, IS THAT THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A TINY POSSIBILITY THAT SOMETHING "FUNNY" MAY (LIKE THE QUADRUPLE-QUALIFIED STATEMENT) POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN HAPPENING, BUT THAT IT HAS STOPPED NOW. ADAM THE EXPERT, DESTROYS THE TEN TWENTY GAMES, ON PARTY POKER, TO THE TUNE OF MORE BIG BETS THAN ANYONE WOULD BELIEVE, (SO I WON'T EVEN SAY) AND ALSO IN THE MULTI TABLE TOURNAMENTS. IN ALL LIKELYHOOD, IT'S THE NATURE OF THE PLAYERS THAT INHABIT FIVE TEN, THAT'S CAUSING YOU PROBLEMS, RATHER THAN SOME DIABOLICAL CONSPIRACY BY PARTY POKER. REMEMBER, THERE ARE OTHER SITES OUT THERE. IF YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT "RIGGING" PLAY SOME ON PLANET POKER. ONCE THEY HAVE THEIR NEW SOFTWARE THAT ROY COOKE PROMISED ME, A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, THIS SITE WILL BE A STRONG CONTENDER. ALREADY, THEY HAVE SOME MAJOR LIVE ONES, YOU JUST HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THE ANCIENT GRAPHICS. BUT, COMPARED TO THE POSSIBILITY, HOWEVER SLIGHT, OF "RIGGING" THIS IS A SMALL CONSIDERATION ALSO, POKERSTARS, ULTIMATE BET, AND, TO A DEGREE PARIDISE POKER, OFFER GOOD TO GREAT GAMES, AND HAVE HONORABLE REPUTATIONS. IT'S POSSIBLE OTHER SITES, MAY BE TRUSTWORTHY, BUT I CANNOT OFFICIALLY RECOMMEND THEM. OPPS, I SPOKE IN THE FIRST PERSON, GOTTA WATCH THAT. A.T.E. | ||
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| Re: Is anyone crushing the 5/10 on PartyPoker?, SpaceAce, 2. Dec 2003 01:43 | ||
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| Adam, Would you care to share your PartyPoker username? I see that you catch a lot of heat around here but I like (most of) your posts and I'd love to watch you play. SpaceAce | ||
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| Re: Is anyone crushing the 5/10 on PartyPoker?, Candide, 3. Dec 2003 08:51 | ||
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| I don't know about party, but I've seen him play devilfish on UB under the name adam the expert | ||
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| Re: Is anyone crushing the 5/10 on PartyPoker?, Chris W, 2. Dec 2003 15:01 | ||
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| I'm surprised that you find the 10/20 to be a good limit. Most of the time it looks like those games are the tightest of any limit on the site. Am I wrong here or you just very selective about the table you play on? thanks Adam. | ||
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| Re: Is anyone crushing the 5/10 on PartyPoker?, Holdemking777, 3. Dec 2003 10:24 | ||
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| LOL, adam come to stars bro....I will teach you plo8 again. BTW I have the hand histories. so dont go 3rd personing trying to talk yourself up :) The real king is back Holdemking777 | ||
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