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Server Time: 1/8/2009 5:25:38 AM PACIFIC |
 Poker Poker Sng's: Crap?, Bungus, 28. Nov 2003 19:00 | ||
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| I've been playing party poker's SnG's for the past few days, and, although ahead, am not up as much as I'd like. The structure of Party's SnG's seems to make the whole thing more of a crapshoot, ESPECIALLY when it gets short handed. When their's only 5 players left or so, the blinds (being like 150+) just eat my chips, so sooner or later I'm forced to either try a risky steal, or go all with a sub par hand unless I get lucky and score a big win mid game. Playing a strong, tight game but not catching many cards, means you'll have to go all in with something like Axo when we're 5 or 6 handed, and leaving things to chance like that reduces the amount of skill required to win. The opposition at Party is pretty terrible, but I've been getting a fairly bad run of cards lately, and my evaluation is based on only like 25 SnG's, so I might chalk it up to bad luck. If any one agrees that Party's sng's suck however, can you suggest a better site for them? In a proffesional's opinion, is it worth it to play them at all? | ||
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| Re: Poker Poker Sng's: Crap?, ReMMy, 28. Nov 2003 19:54 | ||
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| Bungus, Try PokerStars, you get to start w/ 1500 chips. ReMMy | ||
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| Re: Poker Poker Sng's: Crap?, Schuster, 28. Nov 2003 23:03 | ||
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| I actually like them better than UB's. Yeah, it's more of a crapshoot, but they go twice as fast, and my hourly rate is definately higher because of it. I'm more than willing to accept the big variance in exchange. I thought I would like when they moved the 50+5 and up to 1000 starting chips, but now it just kinda annoys me. They take longer, and the extra 200 chips doesn't really feel like it does me a lot of good, it just seems like the really bad players hang around that much longer. Plus, the games take longer overall. In short, I'm a fan. Lee | ||
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| Re: Poker Poker Sng's: Crap?, BigRed1, 29. Nov 2003 00:20 | ||
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| What they really need to do is set some kind of waiting list, by the time I get in one of to $10 SNG, I'm already ticked off from having to try so many of them... | ||
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| Re: Poker Poker Sng's: Crap?, Bungus, 29. Nov 2003 13:38 | ||
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| OMG, I know what you mean. It's like musical chairs trying to get a seat when a table opens. You have to have one quick trigger finger to grab a seat before someone else on a busy night. | ||
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| Re: Poker Poker Sng's: Crap?, palman, 29. Nov 2003 14:16 | ||
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| I make my bankroll extensively on the SnG's. The reason being out of every 10 players..... there seems to be 3-4 of them who are simply god awful, maybe one or two solid players, and the rest just average. Sure the bad players win sometimes, but thats what keeps them coming back. If I have a bad luck streak, I will lose a little bit If I have an average streak, I will win a little bit But if I have a good luck streak I will win ALOT (for example cashed in 9 straight 3 nights ago at the 50's) Over the long haul the profit is enormous, and far more than my ability dictates at any other structure/game. But then again I have done around 1,500 of them by now, so the experience is there. To analyze the situation you put forth: When 6 handed I certainly don't think I'm much more of a favorite to cash with 2000 chips than I am with 1000. At least my chances of cashing aren't doubled with the double amount of chips. That being said, if you can essentially get to the final 6, and once you're there you have an average 50% chance of getting in the top 3, then essentially you are 6 handed playing for 10 people's money. It should be obvious in this situation, the SnG's can be incredibly profitable. There are streaks involved (at worst over 1,500 games I had a 15 no cash streak) involving constant AQ's losing to A10's, and losing every coinflip you're forced to take. But assuming you are playing with an adaquate bankroll and you have the skill, this is essentially a risk-free way of playing as far as I'm concerned. | ||
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| Re: Poker Poker Sng's: Crap?, vest besterly, 29. Nov 2003 23:26 | ||
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| I take it during 1500 SnG you've played every buyin there is. How big of a competition difference do you see going up the ladder from $10 buyins to $100. | ||
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| Re: Poker Poker Sng's: Crap?, palman, 30. Nov 2003 02:21 | ||
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| I have done them all at various stages..... $200's = havent done enough of them to tell, maybe 3 in total, and I think I got 2nd in one of em so I think I'm even overall (minus entry fees) More did it just to see at the time than anything else. One difference is say when the blinds are 10/15 A standard raise of triple the blinds may get folded around, which will never happen at the 30's or 50's. But then again I saw some carelessness as well. From what I remember there seems to be 1 or 2 maniacs but the rest seem in general pretty solid. 100's = similar to 200's in the sense that I havent done many (closer to 30) so have little basis to say, although I've done quite well at them its still more variance than I'd prefer, especially since I usually do not keep enough bankroll in my account to handle those variances. 50's = I've just recently started full time here, not because I didnt think I could make it, but simply I was doing well enough at the 30's I really didnt feel the need, and somehow assumed the competition would be easier. I don't know if its the fact that on party you start with more chips or what, but my success has been almost unbelievable here since I started doing them a few weeks ago. Since I've been doing better at these (maybe 200-300 under my belt) than the 30's I would have a hard time arguing the competition is much tougher. There is enough bad play here to go around. 30's = the bulk of my experience, not much different quality of players at the 50's although I'm starting to think that the lower chip amount brings more luck involved, since I find myself shortstacked much more at the 30's than the 50's. I stayed at the 30's for ages because I did well at them (well enough for me, so didnt feel I needed to risk going higher and deal with the higher variances) and assumed the play at the 50's was better, but it turns out that it is really not much. 10's= I personally have not done many, since I started at 30, but have helped many players along at the 10's and witnessed over 200 some of them, and the quality of play is almost identical to the 30's. The 30's seem to be the same players as the 10's, except the 30 players crave a little more action and a bigger high for winning more money. 5's = With the rake being the same as the 10's these are virtually unplayable, so never bothered. The main difference between the 30's and the 50's is the chip count. You can afford to lose 600 chips when it gets shorthanded on the 50's on a well timed bluff if it gets caught a lot more than you can at the 30's. Also if you play a tighter style you can see a few more hands at the 50's before having to make a move. People at the 50's also seem to recognize that you're playing tight and give you more respect than I used to ever get at the 30's. Perhaps there's little difference in the erraticness of the players or the quality of cards they will play, but there is a difference in their abilities to read the other players. I've also realized its very difficult to analyze the other players. Because I feel that I play what is the "ideal" strategy when I could be in fact wrong. Now I'm quite profitable at them but perhaps at certain stages I do play incorrectly and there is room for improvement. I'd like to think that I play as close to perfectly as possible, but perhaps not. The main question mark in my strategy is that I'm not exactly sure how low my chip count has to be in order to feel the need to make a move. So I compare what others do to whether I would do that or not, and if I wouldnt I consider it a hole in their play. | ||
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| Re: Poker Poker Sng's: Crap?, vest besterly, 30. Nov 2003 12:42 | ||
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| Very informative, thanks. I assume you play NL, I played a couple limit tables last night just because it was impossible to get on a NL table, these games are amazingly slow, it took twice as long. One of the things I actually don't like about NL is that for the first time in any of my non-home game poker playing I get a "thrill" from playing in them which obviously is a bad thing when you're trying to play by-the-numbers poker. I assume that after playing so many games you're gotten to the point where it's no more thrilling than taking a shower. Can you confirm my assumption on this? I'm not moving from the $10 to anything higher until this feeling wears off, I don't care how well I do. Also, have you ever tried your luck on the $100 or other NL cash game tables? It would seem like your skill at Sit-N-Gos would translate well to these games. And some people swear by them. | ||
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| Re: Poker Poker Sng's: Crap?, palman, 30. Nov 2003 13:29 | ||
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| That is one of the reasons I don't play the 100's or 200's alot, because the times I did play them, I did get a "thrill" from them since it was a good amount of money on the line. The times I did play them was for a good part for the "thrill" and I thought about the money more than I should. Eventhough I think I could beat them, the 50's are still safer and I don't quite get that same feeling, so I can play better. Now that I've played the 50's and won at them, I think the 30's don't provide as much profit so I started to get a little disinterested in them, which didn't lead me to playing as well as I could/should. That's when I knew it was time to move up. It was kinda the feeling of playing nickel and dime poker with your friends at home. I still do enjoy them immensely though, even at the 50's once it gets down to 5 handed I still find it fun and a "thrill" to play shorthanded, but it's a thrill more of competition than it is the money. At the 100's I think about the money. As for the NL cash games, I have spent a decent amount of time at those and the 50's. I think I am up at them, but the swings on them are much greater, and I play them more for a mixup if I get tired of playing the SnG's. For example a few weeks ago I played them all week, but for the past few weeks I've played all SnG's. My SnG betting strategy is essentially to try to double up in one hand, and when you play that way for the cash games, it leads to rather large pots, and thus great variances and I am susceptible to losing big hands. One I remember in particular was where I was dealt rockets...and with blinds $1, $2 I pushed it to 8, and got one caller who had already limped from EP. Flop A J 3 , for a set of aces. I bet 12 on the flop and he flat called. The turn came a K and he checked to me, I put it to $30 (pot 42 at this point, 72 if you count my bet) Then he pushed it all in for 150. I had 150 at this point and just KNEW he had the Q10 for the straight, but then I thought "what if he doesn't" and "would he have called the flop bet with a gutshot" and "well I have 10 outs to the nuts" Anyways I called and granted he had the Q10. I made this play twice calling a WAY overbet of the pot without the nuts and got burned. So I was kinda turned off by the swings involved at the cash games, since at the SnG's I KNOW I play them profitably, yet at the cash games my strategy isn't quite as clear or refined. Or at least I'm not 100% confident in it. My advantage in the SnG's is more based on tournament strategy, than anything else. This doesnt come in play at the cash games. The best times in the NL cash games is you'll often find people who are DESTINED to lose just by being generally awful players, and if you sit with those players you can make a lot of money. | ||
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