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Server Time: 1/8/2009 5:33:10 AM PACIFIC |
 whats the ruling?, Poker God, 28. Nov 2003 00:17 | ||
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| I really don't know anything about this and just went along with the decision, is it correct? Im UTG in a NLH tourny. I say "1800" and put the chips in and am told I raised a short amount because I was oblivious to the fact the blinds just went from 300-600 to 500-1000 and that I could now only call instead of raise because 1800 is not a complete bet. By saying 1800 instead of just saying raise like I should have, do I lose the opportunity raise all together or must I just call? | ||
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| Re: whats the ruling?, Blazman, 28. Nov 2003 05:50 | ||
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| YOu should say "Raise" instead of just calling a dollar amount. If you would have said raise and then placed in 1600 then you would have to post 2000 no more no less. When someone does not say raise it is assumed that they are calling. Though obviously you were raising I'm pretty sure they made the right call. -blazman | ||
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| Re: whats the ruling?, MozMan, 28. Nov 2003 10:06 | ||
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| Yeah, that's how I can see it coming down. In NL play, it always best to includ the verbiage "raise" or "call" when you move chips in. If you don't say "raise" and put less than the minimum raise, your opponent or the house can insist that you did not raise and make you take back the overage, in your case, 800. The converse is also true: if you intended to call 1000 and moved out with 1800 in your hand an don't say "call" they can insist that you looked like you wanted to raise and make you put out 2000. -Moz "Hey! You made me ink!" | ||
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| why is this not verbally binding, Easy E, 30. Nov 2003 19:43 | ||
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| AND therefore a raise, Moz and Blazman? "Im UTG in a NLH tourny. I say "1800" and put the chips in and am told I raised a short amount because I was oblivious to the fact the blinds just went from 300-600 to 500-1000 and that I could now only call instead of raise because 1800 is not a complete bet. ' do they not allow you to verbally declare an amount that is over half of a bet more (and therefore usually considered a raise, that you have to make up the difference on) instead of saying raise? Does that imply that if he said "2000" that wouldn't have been a raise either? | ||
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| Re: why is this not verbally binding, Angel, 30. Nov 2003 21:58 | ||
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| I'm with you Easy. Looks like the floor was sleeping. | ||
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| Re: why is this not verbally binding, MozMan, 1. Dec 2003 17:00 | ||
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| Hey, I'm not saying I like it. To me it seems more like people shooting angles based on technicalities. I'm just saying that to avaoid confusion. I always say, "raise" before I reach for my chips (if I'm going to riase), then all action stops until I settle on an amount in front of me. This gives me complete control and doesn't allow anyone to argue with my bet. It also allows me to go back to my chips without someone calling a string bet on me. I guess I got into this habit because there are a LOT of old-timers in the tourneys at my home casino, and they like to pretend that they are sticklers for the rules. I will give my house credit for this, though: The tourney director (one of the best in the business, IMHO) always gives instructions/house rules regarding betting practices just before he announces cards in the air. Then he sticks to his guns when someone tries to get around them. -Moz "Hey! You made me ink!" | ||
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| Re: whats the ruling?, timmer, 1. Dec 2003 10:59 | ||
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| you might of saved your self by jamming in 2800 oh well next hand. | ||
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| Re: whats the ruling?, ADAM THE EXPERT, 1. Dec 2003 18:10 | ||
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| YES, YOU DO. IT SHOULDN'T REALLY BE THAT WAY, AS YOU CLEARLY INDICATED WISH TO RAISE TRIPLE THE SIZE OF THE BIG BLIND, BUT THIS IS A TECHNACALITY THAT IS STRICTLY ENFORCED, IN ALMOST EVERY "HOUSE" YOU WILL EVER SEE. IT'S ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA TO JUST SAY THE WORD "RAISE" NO: "UPSTAIRS" "BUMP" OR OTHER AMATURISH TERMS. MAKING A VERBAL STATEMENT AS TO THE AMOUNT, IS NOT A GOOD IDEA, UNLESS IT IS PRECEEDED BY THE WORD "RAISE" EVEN THEN, MANY HOUSES WILL DISCOUNT THE RAISE, IF THE VERBAL AMOUNT WAS LESS THAN WHAT CONSTITUTES THE MINUMUM AMOUNT TO RAISE. THIS IS, OF COURSE, INSANE, BUT THAT'S THE WAY IT IS. CASINOS, JUST LOVE TO HAVE RULES, THAT DON'T REQUIRE INDIVIDUAL INTERPRETATION, FROM A FLOORPERSON. THIS ENABLES THEM TO HIRE TOTALLY BOGUS FLOORPEOPLE, WHO ARE NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING A FAIR RULING, ONLY PARROTING WHAT'S IN THE RULE BOOK. IF ADAM THE EXPERT WAS THE FLOORPERSON, HE WOULD HAVE RULED THAT YOU COULD HAVE MADE IT 2,000 , AS IT WAS CLEAR THAT YOU INTENDED TO RAISE, BUT SINCE THE AMOUNT OF THE INTENDED WAS ONLY 99% CLEAR, YOU WOULD ONLY BE ALLOWED TO RAISE THE MINIMUM. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN FAIR TO ALL, AND IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE GAME. ONLY ONE CLUB I EVER PLAYED AT, HAD THIS RULE "A FAIR RULING, BASED ON THE GOOD OF THE GAME, IS MORE IMPORTANT, THAN A RIGID INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES" THIS WAS THE ONLY CLUB IN HISTORY, THAT WOULD MAKE THE CORRECT RULING, IN THE EVENT OF A "BURN AND TURN" ERROR. ALL TOO OFTEN, OUR SOCIETY IS MORE INTERESTED IN EXPEDIENCE AND CONVEINIENCE, THAN QUALITY AND PROFESSIONALISM. THIS OF COURSE, IS REFLECTED IN THE ASSININE RULES, THAT WE HAVE TODAY. "WELL, I CAN SEE THAT THIS PERSON IS HAVING AN EPILECTIC SEIZURE, BUT THEY DROPPED A CARD ON THE FLOOR, THEREFOR THEY'RE GETTING A FIFTEEN MINUTE PENALITY" | ||
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| Re: whats the ruling?, BigRed1, 3. Dec 2003 10:49 | ||
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| Here is the "offical" TDA Rule: =========== 8. Half-bet rule: If a player puts in a raise of 50 percent or more of the previous bet, he will be required to make a full raise. The raise will be exactly the minimum raise allowed. ============= | ||
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