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Server Time: 8/28/2008 1:20:43 AM PACIFIC |
 Quitting loser, Roy Cooke, 26. Nov 2003 10:18 | ||
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| Recently Mr. Adam the Expert made a post stating that I was incorrect to continue playing when losing as you don't play well when emotionally devastated by losing......I do agree with the concept....If you are emotionally devastated by losing you should not continue to play... That said, you are supposed to be a professional, a tough competitor, good in the clutch, tough when the pressure is on.....Now I understand that not all people possess the emotional control to do this ( and Adams emotional stability is a question in my mind). But if you want to be a top level pro you need to learn emotional control. Quitting when losing and the games are good is going to cost you a lot of money. If you wish to become a good tournament player you cannot leave when you hit a bad streak......If you go on tilt when bad things happen you are going to blow a lot of opportunities to fight back! In all my career I have won BIG money playing from one rack down....I know several top pros who get tougher when stuck. Good pros handle the situation and play well when stuck! Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke | ||
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| Re: Quitting loser, Aisthesis, 26. Nov 2003 10:42 | ||
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| I'm glad you said that. The thing that did make sense to me in Adam's post was the emotional aspect, which for me of late has actually been less significant on losses than on wins. The losses actually tend to make me concentrate more, and I have usually been able to come back to at least break even. Big wins on the other hand are in greater danger of allowing me to get sloppy, sometimes mistakenly thinking I can bully other players around or losing my focus in trying to get better reads on the other players. But I think it's really a question in both cases of keeping mental toughness (staying "vulcan-like" in the apt words of Adam), and that to be a good player, it's probably better to work on maintaining mental discipline throughout a variety of situations (and also time-spans--for me, it's really easy to have full concentration for the first hour but staying at top form for 3 or 4 hours is rough) rather than to just leave (unless one is losing simply because the table is too strong). Particularly online, where you're always seeing lots of new faces, I feel like my edge SHOULD actually increase as time goes by because I should know more about my opponents the longer I've played with them. | ||
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| Re: Quitting loser, Roy Cooke, 26. Nov 2003 11:01 | ||
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| Very good post with some very good points! Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 26. Nov 2003 10:42 Aisthesis wrote: > I'm glad you said that. The thing that did make sense to me in Adam's post was the > emotional aspect, which for me of late has actually been less significant on losses > than on wins. The losses actually tend to make me concentrate more, and I have > usually been able to come back to at least break even. Big wins on the other hand are > in greater danger of allowing me to get sloppy, sometimes mistakenly thinking I can > bully other players around or losing my focus in trying to get better reads on the > other players. But I think it's really a question in both cases of keeping mental > toughness (staying "vulcan-like" in the apt words of Adam), and that to be a good > player, it's probably better to work on maintaining mental discipline throughout a > variety of situations (and also time-spans--for me, it's really easy to have full > concentration for the first hour but staying at top form for 3 or 4 hours is rough) > rather than to just leave (unless one is losing simply because the table is too > strong). Particularly online, where you're always seeing lots of new faces, I feel > like my edge SHOULD actually increase as time goes by because I should know more > about my opponents the longer I've played with them. | ||
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| Re: Quitting loser, noiseboy, 26. Nov 2003 11:24 | ||
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| I've also had the experience too of having some of my big wins coming AFTER I've gone down a rack or two. I agree with you about staying as long as the game is good up to a point. The thing about limit poker is that when you get really stuck, it takes a long time to get out, so I do have a rule that I won't lose more in one session than I can hope to get back the next next session. There is also something to the fact that when you are running really bad, people start playing better against you than if you are winning, so that is also a consideration. I think you should stay as long as the game is good, and your mentally still in your A-game, within reason. If you lose three or four racks, it might just "not be your day" or whatever. | ||
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| Re: Quitting loser, Aisthesis, 26. Nov 2003 17:46 | ||
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| Actually, I don't think they really do start playing better against you when you're losing (unless they're normally very passive). They are, however, inclined to try to pick on you, but I think that can actually be used to your advantage: Let them call, raise, or bet into your good hands! The thing NOT to do on a losing streak is to try to buy pots, but I think you really can get better returns on your good hands in this situation, so tightening up a little can actually put you at an advantage here in my opinion. Of course, this does presuppose that you still really are on your A-game and have a good idea of when your good hand may indeed be up against a better one. | ||
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| Re: Quitting loser, Mark Gregorich, 27. Nov 2003 22:15 | ||
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| If you possess the self-control, heart, and discipline to ride out a rough run, you cost yourself some valuable opportunities if you pull the plug too quickly when you are losing. You need to be objective, though - if you start chasing hands in a desire to "get even," then your level of play has deteriorated, and it is doubtful that the game is a profitable situation for you. Adopting an attitude of trying to play your best poker, rather than just focusing on immediate results, should help you be more successful when you are stuck. However, I believe your expectation in a game can suffer when you are getting whacked around. A couple reasons for this: opponents are not afraid of you, making it more likely that they will play more aggressively (correctly?) against you; also - if you are losing, some others may be winning. Since most players tend to play better from the lead, then it stands to reason that more of your opponents than normal are winning and thus playing better. I think this may be the best reason to quit a game when you are losing. On the same note, there are a couple of players in my regular game at the Bellagio who have this Jekyll/Hyde syndrome of playing well when they're winning, but horrible when stuck. On days when they're way ahead and I'm loser, I consider quitting early. However, if they are stuck, I will stay regardless of how I'm doing - the opportunity is just too great. Mark | ||
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| Re: Quitting loser, Barry T, 28. Nov 2003 16:42 | ||
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| Hi, One quick point in favor or Adam. If in fact you are a losing player (as Isuspect Adam thinks all of us are) then quitting when you are ahead is a great idea. Quitting when you are behind is also pretty good. In fact, if youiare a losing player but are playing to win rather than just have fun, pass time or learn, then quitting any time is probably correct. This principle also applies to casino games, where nobody is a winnerlong term. BarryT | ||
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| Re: Quitting loser, LJH, 10. Dec 2003 05:52 | ||
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| ROY, WHY WASTE YOUR TIME ANSWERING ADAM. YOU AND I BOTH KNOW WHAT TOP PROS DO. HE IS A NOTHING AND IF PEOPLE STOP ANSWERING HIM HE WILL FADE BACK INTO THOSE CRACKS HE EMERGED FROM. LJH | ||
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