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Server Time: 9/5/2008 12:04:47 AM PACIFIC |
 Poker: Skill V Luck (Again!), Cpt Kernow, 26. Nov 2003 05:00 | ||
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| As someone who has had poker as an only source of income for 6 months, and whos mates have started taking great pleasure in describing as a "poker pro" ( I wouldnt describe myself that way, yet) I am geting into alot of discussions with those that have no understanding of poker whatsoever. Many seem totaly sceptical to the fact that poker can be a source of income, indeed some people that I am newly introduced to are extremely negative when they find out that I have been living off poker, quickly forming the opinion that I must be some form of degenerate with a gambling addiction. This pisses me off because, I only took money out of my pocket once 6 months ago (50$) and have worked that up to over $5000 (most of this coming in the last 2 months as I have started playing highly profitable $30 sitngos at Party) its not like im going into a bookies everyday and putting money on horses etc etc. Anyway I dont need to justify myself to you. Perhaps I am trying to justify myself to myself, as at first poker was just a source of trivial income, indeed my first 200 hours of play show a earn rate of $1.68 an hour wow, in the last two months my earn has hit a rate were I can maintain a comfortable standard of living, this prospect I find slightly scary and disorientating as poker was something I turned to in an emergency and it has quite literaly come up trumps and Im not sure what to do about it. Anyways one discussion that comes up is that of luck. Becuase I have been demonstrably winning and friends have been able to see me go from skint and living of savings to relatively prosperous and allways keen to get the rounds in, they assume that I have been lucky and that the whole thing will turn around and I will end up giving all my winnings back, as this is what happens when you gamble. I try to explain to my friends that I have played 500 sitngos and have a money finish rate of 44%, and therefore can expect to keep makeing profit as long as the standard of play dosnt fluctuate. They however dont get this which is not a surprise as it means nothing to someone who dosnt understand poker. So, the way I describe my ability to be able to expect to make profit from poker is thus. I can get most people to conceed that there is a skill element in poker, but yes the luck element is huge. If we play one game of poker the chances are the winner of that one game of poker will be decided allmost purely by luck. However if you have played thousands and thousands of hands of poker in some of those hands you have been lucky and in others unlucky. Any good luck you have will be cancelled out by bad luck if you play enough hands. This therefore leaves only Skill. In the long run skill can be the only determinate of poker profit and believing in luck is an equivalent of believing in Santa Cluase or the Easter Bunny. They still dont get it this way either, this is because you have to have lived through the grind of thousands of hands and hours to witness this phenomenon at work, to live through those days when the poker gods love you and the days when they hate you and like Prometheus your only defiance of the fickleness of these gods is your skill and your labour. This will see you through. Anyway sorry for that rant. Tournies are both offline at Party and Stars so Im stuck for something to do. | ||
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| Re: Poker: Skill V Luck (Again!), ReMMy, 26. Nov 2003 08:28 | ||
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| Cpt Kernow, I understand exactly how you feel. My family, my girlfriends family, and many of our friends are under the impression that I may have a gambling problem. The degree to which they think that varies, and I've had many interesting discussions... It's almost impossible to convince most people of the difference between roullette and poker. They may hear and understand what you say, but they will still view it as "gambling". I still have a good paying job, but I'm sure at some point in my life, whether for a month or 2 years, I will live off my poker income. This is a comforting thought to me, but I pray my mother doesn't have a stroke when that day comes...lol. Good times, ReMMy | ||
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| Re: Poker: Skill V Luck (Again!), Teach, 1. Dec 2003 06:41 | ||
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| Wtg, continued success. I write for PokerPages.com and did for Poker Digest. Here is an article you may enjoy. I am co-owner at www.victorypoker.com, another poker discussion site. Poker Skills or People Skills By Allen L. Spath Okay, we all do it, some better than others, but nevertheless we all approach a table with our eyes darting from player to player, checking out their body language, their regalia and eventually their chip stack. In an instant we form impressions (some completely wrong), as we begin processing the much-needed data to achieve a winning session. Along with watching how an opponent plays their cards, we continually analyze and explore every detail sitting right before our eyes. Poker isn’t about cards, it’s about PEOPLE! What’s the first thing that enters your mind when you see a twenty-year-old sitting to the right of you? He is on the edge of his seat flipping chips in his hand, as his head pivots non-stop in a 360-degree motion, with a cigarette hanging from his lips and a cold beer held tightly in his left hand. I see inexperience, stupidity, impulsive behavior and a sure fire trap victim. He personifies the person showing little patience, little or no bankroll, wanting to make it happen right now and not willing to wait on the proper cards to take down a huge pot. Or how about the “seasoned” lady sitting to his right. You know, the one who needs a dust buster to occasionally wave over her chip stack to let everyone know that the pile in front of her is not just a dust mound. Are those long wrinkles stretching across her forehead just from worry or her age? Or could they represent the numerous lengthy winning sessions she logs at everyone else’s expense! You will see a myriad of faces, disguises, getups and oddball personalities at the poker table. It is your job to sort everything out and start extracting money, knowing their weaknesses and their strengths. For example, you should know better than to continue betting into a player with chips covered in cobwebs while your are sitting with KK, an ace hits the board and that player hasn’t folded. You should also know better than to enter pots when maniacs at the table are capping just about every hand, unless you have top cards. And you must know when to set a trap when the right situation is at hand, you’re sitting with the NUTS, and they’re still playing chase me, beat me, show me! Who or what intimidates you at a table? Is it their stature, their reputation, their dress, or what? Most of the time (unless they are regulars), we are unfamiliar with the habits and mistakes displayed by players and must rely on our own eyes and ears. They don’t lie; what you see is what you get. You just need to figure out what you are really seeing and hearing. Let’s start with the guy in sun glasses (that’s me), and his friendly attitude at the table. He generally smiles, makes an occasional comment (nice cards), and rakes in his share of pots. What can we learn from his demeanor, dress and actions? Well, you know from his clothes that he is not spending his last dollar; from his glasses he wants to present us an appearance of mystery. This also hides his eyes preventing us from seeing his darting eyes and possibly some tells. His complementary table talk signifies he has an even keel attitude, works hard not going on tilt and that he displays excellent table savvy. If he were a very tight player, we may see his chips stacked neatly, even the colors on the side of chips arranged in color order. The smart player won’t be drinking alcohol, and when he sits down, he won’t say much as he examines the play at the table. He will quickly start to assess his opponents and put them on the type hands they seem to readily play. If he puts a head set on, does that mean he is signaling everyone that he is concentrating on the cards or needs the music to settle his nerves? And if a person is wearing a headset, you must immediately realize they themselves discount the usefulness of tells (sounds like grunts, sighs, and the inflection of voices during calls, raises and checks). Or do they watch the overhead televisions and only occasionally follow the hand until conclusion? All these actions indicate something about our opponents. Astute players must continue to watch and listen, filing information quickly and unceremoniously. People skills are important! Do you really think certain races have an advantage over others? Are Asian players superior to Hispanics or Caucasians? What about Afro-American players; do you automatically think they are better or worse than Native American or European players? And how about women and young players; are they to be given any less chance to win at your table? Preconceived mindsets like these can cause hesitation and error in one’s table play. If your answer to any of these questions was anything but no, you have a problem and it will show in your monthly winnings ledger. Sure, players will quickly prove they are weak opponents, but you can’t assume (you spell that ass-u-and me), that they are not worthy adversaries. Don’t fall into those traps; you have a lot of work separating the strong from the weak, the lions from the deer. Start by assuming all players at the table have arrived to take your money, have time on their hands to play forever and never make mistakes. After each hand in Hold Em’, start to determine who does not fit that criteria. Who plays 10/7 off suit, ace/rag, or who plays QQ or better? You need to know who will chase, who bluffs and who is to be respected when they bet. In Stud, also look to see the quality of their beginning cards. Players going for low straights and having two card flushes are welcome at my table. Poker is a game of opportunities, and the first opportunity is not sitting down unprepared or with preconceived notions and opinions. Know your opponents or they will make your card playing days miserable. People are so willing to show you their cards, or at least “tip their hands.” Be smart, be alert, be a winner. I need another table change, Oh Floorman! ©2000, Allen L. Spath, All Rights Reserved comments to: NyYankezz@hotmail.com | ||
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| Re: Poker: Skill V Luck (Again!), noiseboy, 2. Dec 2003 14:30 | ||
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| I've been having this same problem with my Girlfriend, I play a lot, and she's always telling me I play too much. Funny, because from my perspective, I'm not playing enough. It's weird, I won thousands in small tournaments and she saw me bring home wads of cash, but she still freaks out if I have a bad night and lose a couple of hundred. I keep hoping if enough people turn on the WPT they will figure out that there's much more than luck to it. What really gets me are the "You can't beat the house" people. It doesn't matter how many times you try to explain to them that you are not even playing against the house, at least not directly, they still remain adamant, "You can't beat the house." Ugh! | ||
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