|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 8/30/2008 7:06:02 AM PACIFIC |
 Overcards, iceman5, 25. Nov 2003 14:13 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I know there are no general rules in poker but...this is a situation that happens all the time. Lets say you are in an unraised pot. You have limped from MP with AJ or maybe EP with AQ. The flop is T62 rainbow. If you are sure that an ace or jack (or Q) will win the pot and there is a decent chance that everyone might fold is it correct to bet? I would assume its more correct to bet heads up, but what about with more players? The more players, the less chance everyone will fold but the bigger the pot is if you hit. I realize that alot depends on feel and if the players never fold but Im talking about an average table. Does it change anything if you are calling instead of betting? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Overcards, ADAM THE EXPERT, 25. Nov 2003 14:35 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| SIGH, THE NEVER ENDING WAR, AGAINST ABBREVIATIONS. TO ME, "MP" = MACHINE PISTOL, AS IN "MP-40, AND "EP" MEANS "EXTRA PLAY" OK, THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT POINT, SO I WILL SPEND 50 BUCKS WORTH OF MY TIME, ANSWERING IT. IT'S GOOD THAT YOU HAVE DISCOVERED THAT YOU DON'T JUST "GIVE UP THE GHOST" WITH UNIMPROVED OVERCARDS, BUT, YOU SURE DON'T WANT TO GO OVERBOARD WITH THEM, EITHER!!! THE WHOLE ART OF "OVERCARD BETTING" AND "OVERCARD CALLING" DEPENDS ON THREE VERY IMPORTANT THINGS: THING NUMBER ONE: TABLE IMAGE. IF YOU HAVE BEEN SEEN BETTING NON-PAIR HANDS, BE PREPARED TO BE CALLED DOWN WITH THE SIX OR THE DEUCE, AND BE RAISED BY THE TEN. IF YOU ARE PERCEIVED AS A "TOP PAIR OR BETTER, BETTOR" THEN, YOU COULD HAVE A 34 OFFSUIT GUT STRAIGHT DRAW, AND STILL WIN THE POT!! ED. NOTE: NOTICE HOW THE GUT STRAIGHT DRAW, HAS ONLY 33 PERCENT FEWER OUTS, THAN THE OVERCARD DRAW, AND, YOU WOULD BE DRAWING TO THE NUTS. THING NUMBER TWO NUMBER OF PLAYERS, ATTEMPTING SUCH A PLAY, AGAINST MORE THAN TWO PLAYERS, IS (INITIALLY) A LOSING PROPOSAL. THERE IS QUITE OFTEN A "SHERIFF" WHO JUST GOT IN FROM MISSOURI AND DAMN WELL WANTS YOU TO "SHOW ME" NOW, THERE ARE, OF COURSE, EXCEPTIONS, WHICH MAY SEEM SMALL, BUT ARE ACTUALLY VERY SIGNIFICANT. DO YOU HAVE A BACKDOOR NUT FLUSH? THERE IS A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HAVING THE ACE OF CLUBS, TO GO WITH YOUR JACK OR QUEEN, AND HAVING TWO CLUBS OUT THREE, ALONG WITH THE 10 6 2 , AND NOT HAVING THEM. ONE: NOW, IF SOMEONE IS CALLING YOU, IT MIGHT BE WITH A FLUSH DRAW, RATHER THAN A PAIR, AND YOU CAN WIN IF SHE DOESN'T IMPROVE TWO, THEY DON'T HAVE THE FLUSH DRAW, AND NOW, WHEN ANOTHER CLUB HITS, IF WILL BE AWFUL HARD FOR THEM TO CALL WITH A NON CLUB PAIR, AND IF THEY DO, YOUR OUTS GOING INTO THE RIVER, HAVE JUST GOINE UP 250% ALSO, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, HAVING A THREE STRAIGHT, IS SOMETHING TO LOOK FOR, ESPECIALLY IF SEQUENTIAL. FOR EXAMPLE: IF YOU HAVE A KQ, AND THE FLOP IS 10 6 2, THIS IS ACTUALLY QUITE A BIT BETTER, THAN IF IT WERE 8 6 2. SURE, IT'S QUITE A LONGSHOT TO MAKE A STRAIGHT, BUT CAN WIN A LOT, THE 2-3 PERCENT OF THE TIME THAT IT DOES, AND IF YOU WERE UP AGAINST A SET, YOU ARE NO LONGER DRAWING DEAD, ONLY MOSTLY DEAD. IT SEEMS AS THOUGH ONLY CAPPILETTI (SORRY MIKE, EVERYONE KNOWS I CAN'T SPELL) AND ADAM THE EXPERT, ARE AWARE OF THIS CONCEPT HE CALLS IT "SWOOZLE" (TO MAKE A HAND YOU WERE'NT REALLY DRAWING TO THIS CONCEPT HAPPENS MUCH MORE OFTEN IN OMAHA, THAN HOLD EM, BUT IF SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH, TO INCLUDE IT IN ANY COMPLETE ANALYSIS OF THIS QUESTION. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| ADAM, Schuster, 25. Nov 2003 23:28 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I'd just like to point out that in another post you stated that acronyms are quite ok, it's just abbreviations you hate. If you'll note, UTG, EP, MP, LP, CO, BB, and all the others you hate are in fact acronyms, not abbreviations. Lee | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: ADAM, FlopDaNutz, 26. Nov 2003 07:40 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| What is CO? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: ADAM, shorn, 26. Nov 2003 07:54 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Cut off, or position 1 to the right of the button. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: ADAM-CO, timmer, 26. Nov 2003 08:34 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Uh, Colorado ? perhaps Cut Off as in COS or Cut off Seat | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Overcards, shorn, 26. Nov 2003 05:14 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| The short answer (most of the time as there are no absolutes in poker) is yes. In fact, if someone bets to your right, you should strongly consider raising to limit the field so that if one of your cards does come, your chances of winning the pot go up. This is even more true if you have backdoor draws like 3-flush or 3 to a str8. The only differentiator is the number of players. I would certainly make this play with 3 opponents or less and maybe 4 if I knew that the folks behind me were weak and would fold something like A6. However, with 5 or more players, the likelihood that you can fold off most of the field declines substantially and therefore a bet or raise is less effective. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Overcards, Phish, 26. Nov 2003 10:26 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| on 26. Nov 2003 05:14 shorn wrote: > The short answer (most of the time as there are no absolutes in poker) is yes. In > fact, if someone bets to your right, you should strongly consider raising to limit > the field so that if one of your cards does come, your chances of winning the pot go > up. This is even more true if you have backdoor draws like 3-flush or 3 to a str8. > > The only differentiator is the number of players. I would certainly make this play > with 3 opponents or less and maybe 4 if I knew that the folks behind me were weak and > would fold something like A6. However, with 5 or more players, the likelihood that > you can fold off most of the field declines substantially and therefore a bet or > raise is less effective. According to some people on this board, you should routinely check and fold top-pair against 3 opponents. So the notion of calling or (gasp!) betting with just overcards would be SHOCKING, simply SHOCKING. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Overcards, Schuster, 26. Nov 2003 13:02 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Ouch. Lee | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network |
|