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Server Time: 10/12/2008 4:31:40 AM PACIFIC |
 Omaha players?, Cyndy, 25. Nov 2003 00:37 | ||
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| $30-60 Omaha H/L on Poker Stars. I'm on the button with A-A-2-J w/double suited aces. All fold to me. I raise. Both the blinds fold and I win the $45 blinds. Both of the blinds were decent players, and I'm wondering if I should have just called in that spot in the anticipation of yielding myself a bigger pot with my strong/suited holding. Opinions? Cyndy | ||
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| Re: Omaha players?, ADAM THE EXPERT, 25. Nov 2003 05:09 | ||
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| OK, I'LL ANSWER, BUT YOU MUST UNDERSTAND, THAT ADAM THE EXPERT, DOES NOT HAVE "OPNIONS" ONLY FACTS. REMEMBER, ALTHOUGH I'M SECOND TO MIKE CARO, AS THE WORLD'S BEST POKER EXPERT, IN OMAHA, I AM NUMBER ONE, BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS- NO ONE IN THE WORLD, IS EVEN CLOSE!! OK, IN ANY "FLOP" GAME, IT IS ALMOST NEVER A GOOD IDEA, TO JUST CALL, HOPING TO GET MORE MONEY OUT OF PEOPLE. THE POWER OF PRE FLOP HOLDINGS, IS JUST NOT GREAT ENOUGH, TO ANTICIPATE THAT WE WILL STILL HAVE THE BEST HAND, AND, AND THAT SOMEONE WILL HAVE SOMETHING GOOD ENOUGH TO CALL. THE ONLY EXCEPTION TO THIS, WOULD BE PREMIUM AA23 AA24 AND A 2 3 HANDS. WITH SOMETHING LIKE A 2 3 K DOUBLE SUITED, YOU MIGHT MAKE A "LIMPING" PLAY, AS YOU ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY, TO HIT A GOOD FLOP, AND YOU DON'T AS YET HAVE A HAND TO "PROTECT" WITH AA2 (ANY NON WHEEL CARD) HAND, IT'S EASY AS PIE, TO HIT A TOTALLY INNAPROPRITE FLOP, SUCH AS ANY CONTAINING A DEUCE, OR ANY NON-LOW, NON FLUSH DRAW BOARDS. THE OVERWHELMING VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME, IN POKER STARS 30-60 OMAHA, IF SOMEONE HAS 30 IN, THEY ' A GONNA CALL 30 MORE. ADAM THE EXPERT FINDS IT SO DARN CUTE, THAT PEOPLE CRINGE IN FEAR, THAT THEY DON'T MAKE ANYTHING, WITH AA HANDS, AS THOUGH THAT IS THE WORSE THING THAT CAN HAPPEN. THE REAL WORSE THING, IS THAT YOU LET SOME BULLSHIRT HAND THAT WASN'T GOING TO CALL IN, AND NOW THEY WHIP YOUR BEHIND, FOR A COUPLE HUNDOID, WHEN YOU WOULD HAVE JUST GOTTEN THEIR BLINDS, HAD YOU APPROPRIATELY RAISED. ALSO, THE FACT THAT YOU WERE ON THE BUTTON, WOULD MAKE MOST PEOPLE SUSPECIOUS, THAT YOU REALLY HAD A HAND. THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES, MUCH MORE INPORTANT HERE, AND I DON'T WANT YOU TO MISS THEM. (YOU SHOULD BE HAVING TO PAY FOR MY BOOK, FOR THIS EARTH-SHATTERINGLY GOOD ADVICE) ONE: IF YOU ARE PLAYING IN A GAME WHERE THEY ACTUALLY DON'T CALL A RAISE WITH THEIR BLIND, YOU SHOULD BE WORRING ABOUT WHY YOU ARE STILL SITTING IN SUCH A ROCKED-UP GAME, NOT WHETHER OR NOT YOU SHOULD HAVE RAISED. TWO IF THEY DIDN'T CALL YOU, YOU NEED TO WORK ON YOUR "IMAGE" IMAGE PROJECTION AND FALSIFICATION ( AN EXCLUSIVE TERM, INVENTED SOLELY BY ADAM THE EXPERT) IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SKILL YOU CAN EVER MASTER, IN ANY POKER GAME. IF THEY AIN'T A 'CALLIN, IT'S . . . . . . . . . . . . . .YOUR FAULT!!! WE HAV VAYS OF MAKING YOU CALL!!! SIGH, I'M AFRAID THAT THE WORLD, WILL JUST NEVER LEARN. OH WELL, I HAVE MY LOYAL FANS, WHO APPRECIATE AND RECOGNIZE ( OR SHOULD IT BE: RECOGNIZE AND APPRECIATE) MY GENIUS, I'LL JUST HAVE TO SETTLE FOR THAT. ADAM THE EXPERT IS AVAILABLE FOR PRIVATE TUTORING EIGHTY SEVEN FIFTY NINE AN HOUR., A STEAL, AT TEN TIMES THE PRICE | ||
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| I disagree, partially, Easy E, 25. Nov 2003 06:46 | ||
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| unless you are always attacking the blinds in O/8, which you should't do anyway ("always" being a cursed word in poker), then limping sometimes with top pair/top flush draws and nut low is not going to hurt you that often, unless you don't have the discipline to get away from the hand if you need to. One warning- as you indicated in a backhanded way, you have to be prepared to risk some chips if you do limp, because you don't want to just lay down on any flop that doesn't fit your hand. These are the blinds- their hands don't rate to be that good. Cyndy- if you thought about limping, had you been seem to limp with good hands in late position before? Especially when only you, the blinds and maybe one or two players behind you were still in the hand? | ||
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| Re: I disagree, partially, Cyndy, 25. Nov 2003 12:36 | ||
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| on 25. Nov 2003 06:46 Easy E wrote: > unless you are always attacking the blinds in O/8, which you should't do anyway ("always" > being a cursed word in poker), then limping sometimes with top pair/top flush draws and > nut low is not going to hurt you that often, unless you don't have the discipline to get > away from the hand if you need to. > One warning- as you indicated in a backhanded way, you have to be prepared to risk some > chips if you do limp, because you don't want to just lay down on any flop that doesn't fit > your hand. These are the blinds- their hands don't rate to be that good. > > Cyndy- if you thought about limping, had you been seem to limp with good hands in late > position before? Especially when only you, the blinds and maybe one or two players behind > you were still in the hand? Hi, Thank you for your reply and to answer your question about limping; If everyone folds to me and I'm on the button, if my hand is decent enough to raise in that spot , then I'll raise in attempt to steal the blinds right there, or have the hand played out. If the players in the blinds are too aggresive, then I would like my hand to be a little bit stronger. If they're passive and weak then I'll be a little bit more liberal in that position and I'll put in the raise. If my hand is really weak then I'll pass altogether. I guess I was questioning my raise there because I did want to see a flop with my hand, but that is all hindsight. I felt the raise was correct - and second guessing yourself when you feel your play was correct is not conducive anyway. Both of the players who were in the blinds were decent enough to not give me any action postflop anyway, so why should I give them even the slightest bit of liberty to see a free flop, right? Cyndy | ||
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| Re: I disagree, partially, Easy E, 26. Nov 2003 11:11 | ||
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| "I felt the raise was correct - and second guessing yourself when you feel your play was correct is not conducive anyway. " If you truly believe that, why did you post in the first place? I agree, second-guessing serves little purpose after the fact- what can you gain? Examining the issue thoroughly, in order to explore different possibilities, potential mistakes, needed tweaking... THAT is EXTREMELY valueable and the only real way to exponentially improve your game. But, of course, that's why you decide to post. "Both of the players who were in the blinds were decent enough to not give me any action postflop anyway, so why should I give them even the slightest bit of liberty to see a free flop, right? " Can you make more money from those players, over a number of different flops, to get a better return on future bets than you do here, just stealing the blinds? That's the most obvious question. | ||
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| Re: I disagree, partially, Easy E, 26. Nov 2003 12:42 | ||
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| on 26. Nov 2003 11:11 Easy E wrote: > > "Both of the players who were in the blinds were decent enough to not give me any action postflop anyway Sorry, I need to read more carefully. Given that, I'd prefer to raise as you did. , so why should I give them even the slightest bit of liberty to see a free flop, right? " > Can you make more money from those players, over a number of different flops, to get a better > return on future bets than you do here, just stealing the blinds? That's the most obvious > question. > To clarify this a bit, now that I've properly read what you wrote: If slowplaying this hand will gain you an advantage when slowplaying a different hand down the road (saved bets, calls when they are behind, assuming you started with a bigger hand, etc), then it might be more valuable to slowplay NOW in order to gain LATER. | ||
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| Re: I disagree, partially, Cyndy, 26. Nov 2003 13:48 | ||
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| Hi Easy E- Thank you for following up with me. Yeah, as I said, the blinds were decent players and they played soundly post-flop as well. That is why I raised because I felt they wouldn't pay me later on, so I felt that if they wanted to be a part of the pot, then they would have to pay extra to see it. (at least pre-flop anyway). If I thought they were players that made many mistakes post-flop, then I may have chosen to limp in, but even if they were weak players, then they would probably call one raise to see the flop anyway, with there also being no chance of somebody else rerasing it. So in that spot (on the button), with all players folding to me; I like my raise there. Cyndy | ||
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| pretty ironic, by the way..., Easy E, 25. Nov 2003 07:46 | ||
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| ".. AND FALSIFICATION ( AN EXCLUSIVE TERM, INVENTED SOLELY BY ADAM THE EXPERT) " | ||
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| Re: pretty ironic, by the way..., ADAM THE EXPERT, 25. Nov 2003 14:04 | ||
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| INSUFFICIENT RESPONSE< WHAT IS PRETTY IRONIC? I FIND IT INSULTING, THAT CINDY RESPONDED TO YOUR POST, BUT NOT MINE, WHICH WAS, OF COURSE, 4558 TIMES BETTER. DO YOU GET FAN MAIL, "E" NOOOOOOOOOO ! I DO, I JUST HAD SOMEONE, ALMOST BEGGING FOR A BOOK FROM ME. HA HA HA I FIND IT VERY FUNNY, THAT ANYONE EVEN THINKS THEY ACTUALLY KNOW MORE ABOUT OMAHA, THAN ME. ONLY GOD, KNOWS MORE THAN ME AND HE'S NOT TELLLING | ||
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| Re: pretty ironic, by the way..., 4 POKER, 26. Nov 2003 00:11 | ||
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| You're not only arrogant ADAM. You're ignorant. Ignorant to the fact that there ARE actually other people on this forum that can 'and' do give good advice, even if you....don't want to acknoweldge it. I know it must hurt to hear that, but it's true. That said - Good post Easy E. 4P- | ||
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| Re: pretty ironic, by the way..., Schuster, 26. Nov 2003 08:27 | ||
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| Easy what is your email? I need to send you fan mail!!!! Lee | ||
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| Re: pretty ironic, by the way..., Easy E, 26. Nov 2003 11:07 | ||
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| ezeriver@hotmail.com But, if you send REALLY juicy stuff, especially if it embarasses you, I'm reposting it here! ;) | ||
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| first irony, now obliviousness...., Easy E, 26. Nov 2003 11:13 | ||
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| my dictionary's getting a real workout! Oh, one correction- "BUT NOT MINE, WHICH WAS, OF COURSE, 4558 TIMES BETTER." As long as you keep drooling on the Caps Lock key, your posts will only be 3,743.25 times better. | ||
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| Re: Omaha players?, Cyndy, 25. Nov 2003 14:31 | ||
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| Hi, You seem to have quite a liking for this game with a good understanding to it. I was surprised as well that the big blind didn't call " a 30 more" like you said he would! Thems' the breaks. Thank you for your reply. Cyndy | ||
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| Re: Omaha players?, Mark Gregorich, 25. Nov 2003 11:13 | ||
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| I would raise 100% of the time with this hand in this spot. There are few absolutes in poker, but I think this is one of them. A couple of reasons (some of which may overlap a bit with what ADAM already wrote): 1. Omaha players generally defend their blinds anyway, so you should get some action 2. One of the blinds may reraise you, allowing you to get 4 bets in with this hand preflop instead of 3 (had you limped, a blind raised, and you reraised). 3. This hand is very capable of winning a little or losing a lot if you just limp in - it will be tough for you to release your hand, but the blinds with nothing additional invested will probably not get too stubborn if they don't outflop you. 4. Button raises are often perceived more as a show of weakness - limping may actually raise some concerns that you are slowplaying something like, well, doublesuited AA2 5. It is a rake game, and if you limp, the blinds check, then check and fold if they miss the flop, you will give up a couple of bucks, while offering them a free shot to outflop you 6. Slowplaying ANYTHING in omaha is a dicey proposition - play fast; you'll get action anyways Mark | ||
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| Re: Omaha players?, Cyndy, 25. Nov 2003 12:48 | ||
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| Hi, I agree with you, there is no need to slow play anything in this game. I was a bit surprised that they both folded though, as I'm usually pretty aggresive in that spot anyway. So there's no need for me to second guess my decision there. Oh well, they must have held real trash then I suppose - the big blind in particular. Thank you for your well thoughtout response. Cyndy | ||
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| Re: Omaha players?, ADAM THE EXPERT, 25. Nov 2003 14:09 | ||
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| WELL MARK, YOU HAVE JUST WON THE ADAM THE EXPERT "ACTUALLY KNOWS SOMETHING" AWARD!! I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH YOUR RESPONSE, AND NOT JUST BECAUSE YOU ACKNOWLEDGED MY HAVING ANSWERED MOST OF THIS. THAT IS NOT EASY TO DO, CAN YOU TELL ME YOUR "HANDLE" SO I DON'T ACCIDENTLY PLAY AGAISNT YOU?? OOOPS, MISSED THE RAKE ISSUE. CERTAINLY, IN NO FLOP, NO DROP GAMES, THIS IS A CONSIDERATION. YES, YOU ARE VERY GOOD, INDEED, SO MARK, I ASK YOU THIS QUESTION: WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND I, JUST GIVE THESE BEGINNERS AND INTERMEDIATES, FREE INFORMATION, THAT WAS HARD-EARNED, BY US EXPERTS? IF EVER I WAS TO HAVE SOMEONE COLABORATE WITH ME ON A BOOK, YOU WOULD BE IT. MOST IMPRESSIVE | ||
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| It kills me to say this, Easy E, 26. Nov 2003 12:44 | ||
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| but I have to... agree.... with ADAM..... arrghhhh!!! Well, the quality of the post outshine anyone trying to latch onto it. | ||
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| Re: Omaha players?, ADAM THE EXPERT, 25. Nov 2003 14:15 | ||
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| WHAT!!?? YOU RESPONDED TO EVERY OTHER ANSWER, BUT MINE!! OF ALL THE UNMITIGATED NERVE! ! ! I DON'T CARE IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY "IN YOUR FACE" ATTITUDE, IT'S THE QUALITY OF INFORMATION, THAT COUNTS. MY STUDENTS, WORSHIP ME!!!! DO YOU THINK I GIVE OUT INFORMATION, WORTHS TENS OF THOUSAND OF DOLLARS, FOR NOTHING!! NO, ATTENTION, IS WHAT I CHARGE NO MORE ANSWERS FOR YOU!! | ||
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| Re: Omaha players?, Don Quixote, 25. Nov 2003 19:12 | ||
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| Always wanted to ask an expert an Omaha/8 question :) I am a rank novice, but a few things are starting to getting clearer as I play more in the lofty .50/1. games on Party,. Playing a naked A2 so often gets counterfeited.....even if there is a low at all. I usually play A2s though because I can then freeroll the nut low draw on the nut flush draw. So far, is my thinking right? Why is it when I am dealt A23K the flop comes 789? Oh well, strictly rhetorical :-) Generally speaking (I know, it depends), is it ok to play Axs if the other two cards dont look so hot? Thanks for your attention, Adam. Don Quixote (tired of tilting at bandits) on 25. Nov 2003 14:15 ADAM THE EXPERT wrote: > WHAT!!?? YOU RESPONDED TO EVERY OTHER ANSWER, BUT > > MINE!! OF ALL THE UNMITIGATED NERVE! ! ! > > I DON'T CARE IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY "IN YOUR FACE" ATTITUDE, > > IT'S THE QUALITY OF INFORMATION, THAT COUNTS. > > > MY STUDENTS, WORSHIP ME!!!! > > DO YOU THINK I GIVE OUT INFORMATION, WORTHS TENS > > OF THOUSAND OF DOLLARS, FOR NOTHING!! > > > NO, ATTENTION, IS WHAT I CHARGE > > > NO MORE ANSWERS FOR YOU!! | ||
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| Re: Omaha players?, Don Quixote, 25. Nov 2003 19:15 | ||
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| P.S. Forgot to mention, but I am fairly good at laying down a hand that isnt hit hard by the flop. Don Q. on 25. Nov 2003 19:12 Don Quixote wrote: > Always wanted to ask an expert an Omaha/8 question :) I am a rank novice, but a few > things are starting to getting clearer as I play more in the lofty .50/1. games on Party,. > Playing a naked A2 so often gets counterfeited.....even if there is a low at all. I > usually play A2s though because I can then freeroll the nut low draw on the nut flush > draw. So far, is my thinking right? > > Why is it when I am dealt A23K the flop comes 789? Oh well, strictly rhetorical :-) > > Generally speaking (I know, it depends), is it ok to play Axs if the other two cards dont > look so hot? > > Thanks for your attention, Adam. > > Don Quixote (tired of tilting at bandits) > > on 25. Nov 2003 14:15 ADAM THE EXPERT wrote: > > WHAT!!?? YOU RESPONDED TO EVERY OTHER ANSWER, BUT > > > > MINE!! OF ALL THE UNMITIGATED NERVE! ! ! > > > > I DON'T CARE IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY "IN YOUR FACE" ATTITUDE, > > > > IT'S THE QUALITY OF INFORMATION, THAT COUNTS. > > > > > > MY STUDENTS, WORSHIP ME!!!! > > > > DO YOU THINK I GIVE OUT INFORMATION, WORTHS TENS > > > > OF THOUSAND OF DOLLARS, FOR NOTHING!! > > > > > > NO, ATTENTION, IS WHAT I CHARGE > > > > > > NO MORE ANSWERS FOR YOU!! | ||
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