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Server Time: 11/20/2008 2:20:26 PM PACIFIC |
 Value betting the river in NLHE, stein, 22. Nov 2003 18:12 | ||
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| I sit down at a small online NLHE game (6 seater) and fourth hand up get AJd on the cutoff. Two limpers to me and I make it 5BB to go. I have not previously played with the others and hence have no discernible table image and similarly I know a minimal amount about their play. The BB and one of the limpers calls so we're three way for the flop. It comes: Ac9c6d The BB bets 1BB. The limper calls. Feeling good I make it 12BB and watch only the BB call. I (instinctively) put him on the flush draw and thus watch in horror as that typical third club (6c) falls on the turn. He checks. Thinking his hands made I check behind him and watch an irrelevant 3h fall on the river. So I've got Aces-up with a Jack kicker, but feel its no good. Then he checks again!??! Confused, I start thinking. Checking the flush twice?? When I havent bet the turn?? Considering the betting pattern I decided the highest probability was that he had a weak ace and was trying to show it down. I also decided he would call a reasonably large bet with such a hand on the end. (Perhaps crucially, in the back of my mind, were my recent thoughts that a leak in my play was a failure to value bet the river with the best hand) I decided to bet 20BB and fold to a raise. He did indeed raise to 40BB and I folded. He showed Qc8c for the twice checked flush. Remembering we both have very little information on each other prior to this hand - did I play it bad?? Should I have bet the turn(representing flush) then checked the river (with intention of folding to a raise on turn)? Most importantly, Is this two checks with a flush a new fad I just havent noticed yet? Feeling a little confused and starting to self doubt. | ||
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| Re: Value betting the river in NLHE, PairTheBoard, 22. Nov 2003 18:29 | ||
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| I'd be interested in opinions on this too. I've also been wondering about how the nature of Value Betting the River changes in NL. The problem I see is this. If you make a small value bet with scare cards out, it screams weakness and sets you up for the big reraise to steal the pot. otoh, If you put out a large bet - as stein did with a half pot bet - it takes away the steal reraise but also sticks a lot of chips out there that are likely to be called only if you're beat. I'm thinking small value bets are the way to go when up against a passive opponent. When up against a dangerous opponent maybe just settle for a showdown. | ||
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| Re: Value betting the river in NLHE, ReMMy, 23. Nov 2003 15:32 | ||
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| Stein, I'm certainly not an expert on NL ring games, however with absolutely no read on my opponent I would have checked the river. Also, I would rather bet the turn in that case as the flush draw is just as scary for him as it is for you. I'm interested to see what some of the more experienced players will say... Good times, ReMMy | ||
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| Re: Value betting the river in NLHE, Huck, 26. Nov 2003 10:47 | ||
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| I, too, would have checked the river. As you suggested yourself, your A-J was very beatable and you didn't think it was good. Andrew Glazer has discussed situations like this, and his advice seems to be very good. He says that if you think you'll likely be beat if called or raised, then simply check the river down. It's a bit curious that your opponent checked his flush twice, but it doesn't seem like a poor play, either. There are at least two reasons why he checked it: 1) Because you had come out raising so aggressively, he was probably sure that you'd bet at it again. He may have thought, correctly it seems, that by betting out, you'd put him on the flush and fold. 2) He may have been afraid of a higher flush. Did he turn out to be a rather passive player? | ||
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