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Server Time: 11/20/2008 2:11:18 PM PACIFIC |
 Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), bubbafrog, 22. Nov 2003 10:07 | ||
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| Playing 5-10 holdem at foxwoods last night I turn over my cards the one other player in the hand flings his cards one hits the floor the other one stays on the table I call it a dead hand the floor tells dealer to ship him the pot ( his straight was bigger) I am totally dumfounded that his hand could win!!!!! I raise a big stink about it and get chewed out by the floorman.. What say you players?? \GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR !!!!!!! is what i say .....by the way I had my a-5 straight on the flop the guy rivered me with 8 high but i did manage to get a royal later | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), 4 POKER, 22. Nov 2003 10:48 | ||
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| You said that you got chewed out by the floorman correct? Well what did he tell you? I'm going to assume that he gave you their house rule on that, no? 4P- | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), bubbafrog, 23. Nov 2003 20:45 | ||
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| He told me that he didnt want me disturbing the game just because I was upset about his call. I dont know what the house rule is but I will maintain till the day that I die that his call was WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!!!! just like adam the expert says so correctly is that part of the skill in poker is protecting your own hand.VERY VERY VERY well put adam !! this puke floorman jumps down MY throat !! wtf?? | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), 4 POKER, 23. Nov 2003 21:55 | ||
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| ....HOW DARE THAT FLOORMAN JUMP DOWN YOUR THROAT LIKE THAT! | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), bubbafrog, 23. Nov 2003 22:59 | ||
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| beleive me it was not appreciated ....and if you want to make a JOKE out of it you can go to hell 4 poker | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), Easy E, 25. Nov 2003 06:34 | ||
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| you're an idiot | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), gary ford, 26. Nov 2003 11:32 | ||
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| on 23. Nov 2003 22:59 bubbafrog wrote: > beleive me it was not appreciated ....and if you want to make a JOKE out of it you can go to hell 4 > poker you are definitely a bubba | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), ADAM THE EXPERT, 22. Nov 2003 11:24 | ||
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| WELL, BUBBAFROG, YOU JUST GOT SCREWED BY THE CASINO'S DESIRE, TO TAKE ALL THE SKILL OUT OF POKER!! NOW, ADAM THE EXPERT, DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT THE SLIGHTEST INNOCENT MISTAKE, SHOULD COST THE BEST HAND THE POT, BUT THE CURRENT CROP OF IDIOT, KNOW-NOTHING, DAMN THE TRADITIONS OF POKER- PEOPLE RUNNING POKER ROOMS, HAVE JUST GONE TOO FAR IN THE OTHER DIRECTION. I MEAN, IT'S REDICULOUS THAT IF 1/30 ON ONE INCH OF ONE CARD IS TOUCHING THE MUCK, MAKES A HAND DEAD, OR IF A CARD EVEN TOUCHES THE "BOARD" MAKES A HAND DEAD (BOTH OF WHICH EXISTED IN THE PAST) BUT, A CARD OF THE FLOOR, CONSTITUTES A DEAD HAND!! EXCEPT IN DRAW GAMES , BEFORE THE DRAW, WHEREUPON ONLY THE CARD (S) ON THE FLOOR, ARE DEAD. MY GOD!! HOW FAR THEY'VE GONE, IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, PART OF THE SKILL IN POKER, IS PROTECTING YOUR HAND. I'LL GO YOU ONE BETTER, FROG. ADAM THE EXPERT, WAS THE VICTIM OF THE MOST OUTLANDISH EXAMPLE, OF A CASINO VIOLATING THE PRINCIPLES OF DEAD HANDS, IN THE HISTORY OF POKER. IN FACT, MY EXAMPLE, WAS EXACTLY 345,678,345 TIMES WORSE THAN YOURS HOW DOES THIS GRAB YOU. WHILE PLAYING IN A POT LIMIT GAME, I FLOPPED TWO SMALL PAIR. I CHECKED, THEIR WAS A $20 BET, A $40 RAISE, AND THIS NEW PLAYER, CALLED THE $40. ACTION GETS TO ME, I CALL THE 40, AND RAISE $160 MORE. THE ORIGINAL BETTOR, AND THE FIRST RAISER DROP, NOW THE NEWBIE, PUSHES HIS CARDS TOWARDS THE DEALER, AND THE DEALER EVEN VERIFIES, "YOU DON'T WANT TO CALL"? (THIS WAS OF COURSE, COMPLETLY IMPROPER, HE SHOULD HAVE JUST TAKEN THE CARDS) NOW, WITH THE CARDS IN THE MUCK, YES, IN THE MUCK NOT "TOUCHING" THE MUCK, IN THE @%^@%^#$%#!@$^%#$ MUCK ! ! ! ! ! ! ! NOW THE GUY SAYS THAT HE WANTED TO CALL!!!! THE DEALER SAYS, "OK, WISPER TO THE PLAYER NEXT TO YOU, WHAT YOU HAD" THEY PROCEED TO TAKE HIS QQ OUT OF THE MUCK, AND HE CALLS THE $160 (I WAS ALL IN FOR THAT AMOUNT. THE BOARD WAS K 9 8, AND I HAD NINES AND EIGHTS, SO, MR QQ NEWBIE, HAD ALMOST A ONE IN THREE CHANCE TO OUTDRAW. HE DID NOT GET THERE, AND I WON THE POT, BUT STILL, I WAS VIOLATED IN THE WORSE POSSIBLE WAY. I CAN TELL YOU, THAT UPON VERIFICATION OF THIS RULE, THAT ADAM THE EXPERT WILL NEVER PLAY AT FOXWOODS, AND WILL RECOMMEND TO MY FOLLOWERS, THAT THEY FOLLOW SUIT. IN CASE ANYONE WAS WONDERING WHY I MOVED TO ALASKA, WE STILL HAVE THE OLD "TOUGH" RULES, AND IF YOU EVEN PUSH YOUR CARDS FOWARD, EVEN IF YOU HAD THE BIG BLIND, AND FORGOT, THAT'S IT, DEAD HAND POKER IS SUPPOSED TO BE A GAME OF SKILL, WHERE THE GOOD PLAYERS BEAT THE HELL OUT OF THE BAD PLAYERS, IT SURVIVED THAT WAY, FOR AROUND 150 YEARS, BEFORE THE CASINOS STARTED TO CHANGE, TO THE NEW 'USER FRIENDLY" RULES. AGAIN, IN A "FRIENDLY" LIMIT GAME, ANYTHING BELOW 6-12, I DO BELIEVE THAT VERY MINOR RULE INFRACTIONS, SHOULD NOT RESULT IN A DEAD HAND. BUT A DROPPED CARD, IS NOT MINOR, AND SHOULD ALWAYS BE DEAD, UNLESS SOMEONE ELSE, TOOK THE CARD FROM THE PLAYER, AND THREW IT ON THE FLOOR. ENOUGH, IS ENOUGH!! P.S. IN ADDITION TO BEING THE SECOND BEST AUTHORITY IN PLAYING POKER IN THE WORLD, ADAM THE EXPERT, IS THE NUMBER ONE AUTHORITY IN THE WORLD, IN THE SUBJECT OF PROFESSIONAL POKER DEALING, AND STILL DEALS A MEAN GAME, THOUGH I ONLY DEAL ABOUT ONCE A MONTH. THE GAMES HERE IN ALASKA, ARE, BY FAR, THE TOUGHEST IN THE WORLD TO DEAL, AND BY FAR, THE MOST LUCRITIVE SO, AS PART OF MY FAMOUS "PRO BONO" INSTRUCTION PROGRAM, I WILL NOW INVITE ANY DEALER WISHING TO BECOME MORE PROFESSIONAL, TO ASK QUESTIONS OF ME, SUCH AS "WHAT SHOULD I DO IN THIS SITUATION" AND, EVEN MORE SPECIFICLY, "WHAT SHOULD I SAY, IN THIS SITUATION" SURE, THERE ARE A FEW DEALERS IN THE WORLD, BETTER THAN ME. IT'S TRUELY A JOY TO SEE THEM. I JUST LOVE WATCHING A TRUE MASTER, AT WORK. ADAM THE EXPERT, IS KNOWN TO SIT THERE, AND TOKE THEM, EVEN WHEN NOT EVEN IN THE POT. SOMETIMES, I SIT THERE, WITH A STACK OF DOLLAR CHIPS, AND AWARD ONE, FOR EVERY AREA OF SKILL, IN WHICH THEY EXCEL.- BUT NO ONE IN THE WORLD, IN ANYWHERE CLOSE TO ME, IN THE SUBJECT OF "PROPER DEALING PHRASEOLOGY" IF I EVER GET UNLAZY ENOUGH, TO COMPLETE MY MASTERPIECE ON POKER DEALING, THERE WILL FINALLY BE A TEXT AVAILABLE, FOR DEALERS WISHING TO BETTER THEMSELVES. BUT, AFTER THE LACKLUSTER RESPONSE TO MY POKER \BOOK OFFERING, I DOUBT IF I WILL FINISH IT. ADAM THE EXPERT, DOES NOT LIKE NOT BEING APPRECIATED. MY LOYAL STUDENTS AND FOLLOWERS, KNOW THAT ALL MY CLAIMS OF GREATNESS, ARE 100% TRUE. ADAMOFALASKA@HOTMAIL.COM | ||
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| time for a vacation, Easy E, 25. Nov 2003 06:36 | ||
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| your arrogance teapot is boiling over | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), MozMan, 22. Nov 2003 11:55 | ||
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| Here's my take on the situation: 1- It's not easy to be a floorman, and most of the floormen I know do a tremendous job of making the best of bad situations. They are human, and sometimes make the wrong call. 2- A house rule is a house rule and we all need to respect that, even if they are bad rules (and there ARE some that are bad rules). 3- All else being said, you are absolutely right to be upset. That hand should be dead. -Moz "I opened for The Who at Woodstock. I came out in a Beatle wig and a ukulele. Hendrix said he almost plotzed! His exact words." | ||
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| Moz, check out Erik B's posts, Easy E, 25. Nov 2003 10:33 | ||
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| you may not have all of the facts. | ||
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| Re: Moz, check out Erik B's posts, MozMan, 25. Nov 2003 21:12 | ||
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| ahh... the plot thickens... :^) I see that, indeed, I did not have all the facts. About the only things I said that still appear to be valid are that floormen have a tough job, and the vast majority work wonders at making the best of bad situations, and that house rules need to be respected. -Moz "Hey! You made me ink!" | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), Pale Ale, 23. Nov 2003 23:49 | ||
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| Bubbafrog. Two separate issues here. One. You didn't give us exact details of what happened, but this is how it read to me. You turn over your cards. Your opponent throws his cards on to the table and one flies off. You expect his hand to be declared dead. The hand should be live if there was equal action on the betting. The man was obviously not mucking his hand. You state that you flopped a straight and your opponent rivered a higher one. "What say you?" I say you were trying to use a technicality to win the pot. You lost the hand and wanted to win it because one of his cards fell off the table. I say that is angleshooting. I would NEVER want to win a hand that way. Two. Your issue with the floor. If you are old enough to play in a casino, you should be old enough to control your temper. You don't have to like the rules, you just have to abide by them. The floor is paid to make these decisions. If you don't like them, you can always start a home game and create your own. You don't have to like what I said above, but if it angers you, remember that YOU did ask for opinions. After reading your post, I wondered if you were simply asking the forum to condone your actions that evening. I for one do not. PA | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), bubbafrog, 24. Nov 2003 09:53 | ||
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| What actions???? I didnt "do" anything I simply called it the way that I thought was right maybe you should read adams post to gain insight here protecting your own hand.....just take for instance...say someone takes their cards and puts them into their lap......what is that ? The dealer is going to ask the player to keep them on the table and what if they dont and keep putting them down there....let me speculate...DEAD HAND??? | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), bubbafrog, 24. Nov 2003 10:05 | ||
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| Pale ale ...Poker is about making money. Pure and simple I will take a pot any way I can get it my friend and if you were smart you would leave your lofty ideals at the door but this all just a game to you right? You probably dont care if you win or lose.and as far as acting my age in the casino ....I was ! The floor raked me over the coals for just stating my opinion. He was just mad that i disagreed with him. I did not cuss and raise my voice and disturb anything just sat there and discussed it with the fellow next to me who totally agreed with me that it should have been called dead (along with 7 players at the table) You must be cop or a rent a cop more likely ...some one who has or craves having authority and says how dare anyone even question it even when it is clearly wrong so take your lofty ideals and power trip somewhere else my friend. | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), Pale Ale, 24. Nov 2003 11:50 | ||
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| Bubbafrog says..."Pale ale ...Poker is about making money. Pure and simple I will take a pot any way I can get it my friend..." Ok...so we are in agreement that you were angle shooting. In case you have a question of what that entails, I pasted the definitions below. angle 1. (n) A maneuver, usually on the border between legality and illegality (but usually clearly unethical), to take unfair advantage of another player. angle shooter (n phrase) A poker player who uses various underhanded, unfair methods to take advantage of inexperienced opponents. The difference between an angle shooter and a cheat is only a matter of degree. What a cheat or thief does is patently against the rules; what an angle shooter does may be marginally legal, but it's neither ethical nor gentlemanly. Nor is it in the spirit of the game. Unfortunately, poker is not a gentleman's game. In addition to learning how to protect yourself against cheating players, you must learn to watch out for the angle shooters. Let's move on to the second part. You state in this last post..."I did not cuss and raise my voice and disturb anything just sat there and discussed it" Yet...in your first post you state..."I raise a big stink about it and get chewed out by the floorman." I am sure you can see my confusion here. "A big stink" does not conjure images of a person calmly stating his/her case and then quietly acquiescing when it becomes evident that his/her opinion has been heard and then dismissed. I am not sure whether you are now revising history, or you mispoke in the first post. Either way, you are failing to see that I am actually trying to help you. I will grant you that I am not going out of my way to be polite. This is probably because I vehemently disagree with your stance in this matter. I believe that if you continue down this path you are on, you will not improve your game, and you will continue being one of the many that support those who play poker as a profession. While I have faint hope that this will sink in as you read it, perhaps down the road it might. Regardless, my opinion is freely given and I feel better for offering it. PA | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), bubbafrog, 24. Nov 2003 12:54 | ||
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| i did misspeak in my first post ..i did just sit there and discuss it. I am not an angle shooter just someone who hates crappy calls by ignoramus floormen | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), Erik Blazynski, 24. Nov 2003 18:10 | ||
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| Yeah, it was completly clear at the time that the other man had won the pot. Everyone saw the winning hand before it hit the floor. Remember when you hit the Royal? You were showing everyone at the table your cards before the hand was done, The man 2 positions ahead of you saw your hand and folded, should that have been a dead hand? You can't show your cards to other live players at the table? House rules cowboy, I wan't my $10 BB back.. | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), Erik Blazynski, 24. Nov 2003 17:54 | ||
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| Listen up there cowboy. I was sitting at that table and the floor manager made the right call. First of all you were drunk, second you were throwing cards in peoples faces every time you won a hand, that is why he threw them in your face. Third, the 8 came to rest on the rail before the fat guy who had nothing to do with the hand knocked it on the floor, we all saw the 8 and knew he had the higher straight. Fourth, you were yelling at the floor manager and your not going to get anywhere yelling at him. BTW I was the guy that took you down with AA when you advertised that you had KK, and were raising all of my bets.. remember that "bad Beat" cowboy?? | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), JohnFR, 25. Nov 2003 07:43 | ||
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| Thank you Erik, glad to hear the actual story, bubbafrog obviously has problems with his temper as you can see by his posts, he needs to learn to be humble and accept people's opinions instead of telling people to go to hell. Cheers, John | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), bubbafrog, 25. Nov 2003 12:34 | ||
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| really ....I am glad i popped your aces . You dont know what youre talking about. You were the one that I had the royal on then too? I am confused about which player you were. | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), Blazman, 25. Nov 2003 12:39 | ||
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| no I was not in for your royal, You showed the hand to about 6 people before you showed it. A sure tell that you had a good hand. I was sitting in the 9 seat. You kept telling me that I was lucky, when I really only played about 3 hands an hour. | ||
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| Re: Dead Hand Or No???(Foxwoods), Erik Blazynski, 24. Nov 2003 17:58 | ||
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| And one more thing, he was NOT chewing you out.. he was listening to you yell at him, and when you finally shut up he explained. | ||
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