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Server Time: 1/8/2009 9:05:14 AM PACIFIC |
 QQ heads up, capped pre-flop, Snorbolus, 22. Nov 2003 07:29 | ||
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| Playing $5-10 Hold'em, I raise first in from middle position with red queens. A lady re-raises from late MP. Everyone else folds. I cap and she calls. I have seen this lady around the poker-room before but have never played against her. She is new to the table and I do not think that she recognises me. I suspect that she is a solid player and put her on a standard re-raising hand AA, KK, AK, QQ or JJ; perehaps something like TT, 99 (if she has me on AK and is trying to isolate), Ace-paint suited? Flop: 6 8 10 rainbow. I check, planning to check-raise but she checks also. I now believe that I should have bet out because, after I cap pre-flop, she is more likely to have me on a pair than on AK. What might she have? I was expecting her to bet with pretty much any of the holdings that I had her on - hence my check-raise attempt. I think that if she had an Ace-paint type holding or a smaller pair she might be more likely to have bet the flop after I checked, to keep the pressure on just incase I was weak. Turn: A. This is a bad card for me. I check. I now think this is a clear betting spot. If she has AA or AK she will likely raise and I can fold. If she has KK she might lay it down. What do the rest of you think? Anyhow, she checks also. Why isn't she trying to buy this pot? Is she strong and hoping to pick up a bet on the river? River: 2, no flush possible. I check again. I am going to call but don't want to be raised now. She bets her JJ. I call and win. Any comments on my play? Snorbolus | ||
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| Re: QQ heads up, capped pre-flop, Formless, 22. Nov 2003 08:16 | ||
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| I would have played it the same way as you. I think betting out the flop would have been much better. | ||
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| Re: QQ heads up, capped pre-flop, Mark, 22. Nov 2003 09:13 | ||
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| Snorbolus Since you didn't know the lady's play at all, i think betting the flop would be better, but that is more of a personal decision. After the flop gets checked back, you need to bet the turn. You gave 2 free cards in this hand. It would be horrible if she had a weaker hand than you expected and hit a 2 or 4 outer on the river. ( in this case, she could have spiked a J) Mark | ||
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| Re: QQ heads up, capped pre-flop, 4 POKER, 22. Nov 2003 10:22 | ||
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| on 22. Nov 2003 07:29 Snorbolus wrote: > Playing $5-10 Hold'em, I raise first in from middle position with red queens. A > lady re-raises from late MP. Everyone else folds. I cap and she calls. I have > seen this lady around the poker-room before but have never played against her. > She is new to the table and I do not think that she recognises me. I suspect > that she is a solid player and put her on a standard re-raising hand AA, KK, AK, > QQ or JJ; perehaps something like TT, 99 (if she has me on AK and is trying to > isolate), Ace-paint suited? > > Flop: 6 8 10 rainbow. I check, planning to check-raise but she checks also. I > now believe that I should have bet out because, after I cap pre-flop, she is > more likely to have me on a pair than on AK. > > What might she have? I was expecting her to bet with pretty much any of the > holdings that I had her on - hence my check-raise attempt. I think that if she > had an Ace-paint type holding or a smaller pair she might be more likely to have > bet the flop after I checked, to keep the pressure on just incase I was weak. You *have to* bet here snor- the pot has already been capped, you've both shown aggression but you don't know how your opponent plays and what she's capable of 3 betting you with, and you're sitting on a very good hand but one that is still vulnerable to overcards if she doesn't already have you beat. Put the pressure on at least and see how she responds to it, hence, no free cards. Don't become the calling station here and check-raising is a bad option (imo) in a heads up situation with a good/yet still vulnerable hand. BET! > Turn: A. This is a bad card for me. I check. I now think this is a clear > betting spot. If she has AA or AK she will likely raise and I can fold. If she > has KK she might lay it down. What do the rest of you think? Anyhow, she checks > also. Why isn't she trying to buy this pot? Is she strong and hoping to pick up > a bet on the river? Well the Ace is a bad card, but for WHO?! That's the question! I would be more inclined to bet my hand here. If she 3 bet you coming in with A-K, or at worst A-Q, I do think that she would bet the flop after you checked, so all the *more* reason why I wouldn't put her on an Ace. One reason being, Alot of players won't slow down with a hand like A-K with that flop - they're going to (try) and win the pot right there because she probably doesn't think that you're going to checkraise her on the flop. If she had A-K and she thought you both had a similar hand, wouldn't she at least try to get you to fold? (I think she would). If she was passive, perhaps not - but she was aggresive preflop, remember? (players *usually* follow through with their aggresion, at least once to test the waters and to put some more pressure on. So I would be a little more inclined to put her on a pocket pair and it's definitely not K-K or she would have bet the flop. > River: 2, no flush possible. I check again. I am going to call but don't want > to be raised now. She bets her JJ. I call and win. > any comments on my play? I think you were too passive on the flop. You needed to bet the flop for information and to protect your hand, but since you didn't......you don't know where you stand in the hand at all. BUT, being that you *did* check the flop and she checked behind you BOTH rounds, I would have bet the river because I don't think she's capable of betting the river going by her lack of aggresiveness throughout - but she "may" pay you off because you weren't aggresive either! And unless she was THAT passive, don't you think she would have bet the turn if she had an Ace? If she was capable of 3 betting you preflop, you best be sure she'd bet the turn! So in this situation (and in other situations also) with only one overcard out there, you shouldn't always think/fear that your opponent has that card, yes, even the Ace. (just my opinion). 4P- > > Snorbolus | ||
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| Re: QQ heads up, capped pre-flop, Snorbolus, 22. Nov 2003 10:45 | ||
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| Thanks Formless, Mark and 4P, You are all right. I was much too passive. I think that am starting to "play scared". I am having a run of very cold cards right now (can't remember the last time I had a hand stronger than 2 pair), and my top pair/overpair holdings are faring so badly that I find it increasing difficult to believe I am ahead when I make it. I am sure that I have lost a significant number of big bets after flopping top pair over the last 50 hours. Every time that I have been raised when I have top pair it has been by a better hand. It is becoming dificult to keep telling myself that I am just getting unlucky. That is why I have posted a couple of the hands that I played passively. It feels wrong, I agree with your analysis that it is wrong. I just wanted to hear others say it. Snorbolus | ||
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| Re: QQ heads up, capped pre-flop, noiseboy, 24. Nov 2003 08:41 | ||
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| I don't think that your wanting to check raise the flop was so much "scared" as either getting greedy or perhaps too fancy. You were rightly a bit worried when the A came down since so many hands she would three bet with have an A. Just remember that you usually only want to check raise when you are pretty sure someone will bet, and generally it's hard to be sure with only one opponent. | ||
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| Re: QQ heads up, capped pre-flop, noiseboy, 24. Nov 2003 08:36 | ||
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| When you capped the pot, you got in the last word, so you can't expect her to bet. There are some hands she might three-bet with, AQ or 99-JJ, for instance, that she would realize were in trouble when you capped and therefore would check unless she caught help on the flop. So basically, you should definitely bet the flop whenever you "got the last word in" preflop. I'd even bet if an overcard or two came, trying to represent them as helping me. | ||
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| Re: QQ heads up, capped pre-flop, backtoanalog, 24. Nov 2003 09:39 | ||
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| I agree with noiseboy. But in my non-expert opinion I think checking on the turn may have been a bigger mistake. Yes, I would have had her on AK too, but you gotta find out. Bet into her here and represent the Ace. if she raises you learn what you needed to know, and with only two outs you can probably get out. | ||
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| Re: QQ heads up, capped pre-flop, noiseboy, 24. Nov 2003 11:49 | ||
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| Yes, you should bet the turn as well. My general rule with big pairs heads-up is to just pound away until my opponent convinces me otherwise, overcards or no. BTW, analog is the way to go. At least for music recording. | ||
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| Re: QQ heads up, capped pre-flop, shorn, 25. Nov 2003 07:22 | ||
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| You MUST bet the flop here. What more could you have asked for except maybe a Queen? If she raises, then you check/call the whole way after that. I think checking the Ace (once you have bet the flop and are called or raised) is the right play. But, once the Ace comes and she still checks, I think you should bet the river. Hell, if she is that passive you may get her to lay down KK or a weak Ace. | ||
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| Re: QQ heads up, capped pre-flop, LJH, 25. Nov 2003 11:12 | ||
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| SNORBOLUS. YOU PLAYED IT EXACTLY RIGHT. YOU GOT AN EXTRA BET BY CHECKING ON THE RIVER TO GET HER TO TRY TO BLUFF YOU. LJH | ||
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