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Server Time: 8/21/2008 9:51:04 PM PACIFIC |
 Playing Ax Suited, oboy, 21. Nov 2003 17:53 | ||
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| I regularly play Ax Suited. Is this a mistake? | ||
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| Re: Playing Ax Suited, mkpoker, 21. Nov 2003 18:07 | ||
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| Yours is a classic "not enough information" post. Give some some context or examples...tell us what *you're* thinking. Are you playing Axs in all positions; against all table textures? Generally, the rule of thumb is that it's OK to play Axs in late position in an unraised pot. So if you're paying 2-3 bets preflop with Axs, it's definitely a mistake. If you're playing Axs from early position, I think it's a mistake, though I know others would argue the pont. | ||
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| Re: Playing Ax Suited, Angel, 21. Nov 2003 21:24 | ||
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| Yes, this would qualify as a mistake. As was pointed out - more information would be needed to determine if a certain instance was a mistake but Axs comes equally in all positions and in all games textures - so if you are regularly playing it, then I think you can safely say that you are playing it far too often. | ||
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| Re: Playing Ax Suited, ReMMy, 22. Nov 2003 09:12 | ||
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| A2-5 and A10-K are better than A6-9 since they have straight possibilities. Avoid being the first one to enter the pot w/ these hands if your have a small kicker. Other than that, more context needed... | ||
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| Re: Playing Ax Suited, noiseboy, 24. Nov 2003 11:10 | ||
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| I disagree that A2-5 is better than A6-9 in some games. In games where a lot of players play ANY-A then A9 and A8 go up in value as long as the pot isn't raised by someone who likely has a real hand. Also, suitedness goes way down in value when in short-handed/steal situations. In very loose games, I do like the added str8 possibilities over a marginal kicker. However, in a tighter game where it's folded to me in LP I'll take A9-7, even offsuit, over A2-5 suited. Just depends on your opponents and the specific situation. | ||
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| Re: Playing Ax Suited, backtoanalog, 24. Nov 2003 11:30 | ||
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| I'll play Ax suited in mid and late position. Sometimes I won't play it in mid if there is a maniac behind me, but most of the time I will. But, as soon as there is no flush in play on the flop, I'm out. If there is an ace the choice is harder if your in late position against two opponents, you could bet into it trying to win right there. If someone calls I'd probably check on the turn and fold after a bet. In a situation like this, time after time you'll be shown A 10o or AJo by the button who was just going to call all the way to the river. Just my opinion. | ||
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| Re: Playing Ax Suited, ADAM THE EXPERT, 24. Nov 2003 12:37 | ||
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| A good rule of thumb is: if you can't play ace exe suited, then you are playing in too tought (tight) of a game. Find another one. In a tough and/or tight hold 'em game, ace exe suited-except as a "blind stealer" is pure DEATH. If you flop an ace, no one will call you, except for a better ace. If you should flop a flush draw, you will not be getting any kind of pot odds- and it's 9-1 against even flopping a draw to a flush. Should you flop two of your "exe", you cannot except three or four bozos, calling with overcards. So, if the texture of the game, is such that an average of at least 5 players are in every pot, with minimal raising, and maximum flop callers, go ahead and slap in a bet. Don't worry if you are in first position, not enough in, etc. This is a horrible mistake that the other so-called "experts" teach. Adam the expert teaches to go with the type of game, not the position or how many callers there already are. If there have been 5, 6, 7 or even more callers, for most of the pots, with maybe only one raise before the flop, and 4 or more callers on the flop, it is a financial DISASTER, to throw away a playable hand, just because THIS pot has no callers, as of yet All the other so-called "teachers" cringe in terror, at the worst situation you can put your self in, in hold em (heads up agaisnt a hand that "dominates" you) without bothering to figure out the ODDS against this occurring ! ! ! ! ! (uh, well, the last 82 pots have all had at least 7 players, but since you are in, OH MY GOD !! FIRST POSITION!!!! YOU BETTER THROW AWAY THOSE POCKET SEVENS, JUST IN "CASE" NO ONE CALLS, AND SOMEONE RAISES WITH TWO KINGS!! aaaaaahhhhh!!! horrors!!! LISTEN TO THESE CLOWNS, AND BE UNSUCCESSFUL LISTEN TO ADAM THE EXPERT, AND BECOME (MAYBE) A MILLIONAIRE!! (YES, I'VE HAD ONE STUDENT GO ON TO BECOME ONE, THROUGH POKER) NOW, NOTE THAT THE ABOVE ADVICE, APPLIES TO "SMALL" HOLD EM GAMES, AS A RULE (6-12 AND BELOW) IF IN A LARGER GAME (THAT PLAYS AS THEY SHOULD) YOU FIND YOURSELF WITH ACE EXE SUITED IN EARLY POSITION, OR LATE WITHOUT AT LEAST TWO CALLERS, IT IS A FINANCIAL DISASTER, TO PLAY SUCH A HORRIBLE RAG, AS ACE EXE SUITED. BUT, ONE RULE, IF YOU ARE GOING TO PLAY THIS HAND, AND YOU FLOP AN ACE (ESPECIALLY IF ALSO HAVE A BACKDOOR FLUSH DRAW) YOU MUST BET!! THIS IS THE SAD JOKE I SEE BEGINNING PLAYERS MAKE, CHECKING BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID OF A BIGGER KICKER!! WELL, DONT PLAY THE DAMN THING IN THE FIRST PLACE, IF YOU CAN'T BET WHEN YOU MAKE YOUR HAND!!! THERE IS ABOUT A 9% CHANCE, PER PLAYER, THAT ANYONE ELSE HAS AN ACE IN THEIR HAND, AND SOME OF THOSE TIMES, THEIR KICKER WILL BE LOWER THAN YOURS, IF YOU SAY HAVE A FIVE KICKER. AND PEOPLE JUST ACT AS THOUGH YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE YOUR ARM CHOPPED OFF, IF EVER YOU RUN INTO "KICKER TROUBLE" HEY, WHY DID I JUST GIVE THAT INFORMATION AWAY!! YOU SHOULD HAVE TO BUY MY BOOK, TO GET THAT. ANYWAY, THE NUMBER ONE DISASTER IN HOLD EM, IS GIVING A FREE CARD. (AND THIS IS IMPORTANT) to someone who was not going to call, but now beats you!! The "bozos" continue to harp about not giving a free card, but, in situation where everyone is going to call anyway, it's not nearly as bad. Sure, you lose value the times no one hits, but this is not nearly as bad, as losing a pot, to someone who was not going to call, especially when the pot is HUGE. So, here is the Adam the Expert simple plan, for playing this hand, in small hold em games. If a game where their have been averaging 5 or more players, automatically call, regardless of position. If flop a flush draw, bet out, and go to the cap, providing it's not heads up. If flop an ace, and a backdoor flush draw, bet, and call a raise, but not two. If flop an ace, but no backdoor flush draw, bet out, if four or less opponents, check and fold, to five or more opponents (even though the odds are still actually in your favor, that none of the five has an ace, there is too much chance that someone will make something to beat you) In a "normal" hold em game (10 20 and UP) fold in first five positons, unless there are two or more limpers. on the button, or second button (now discustingly know to MOST, but NOT Adam the Expert, as the "cutoff") Raise, attempting to steal the blinds So, to put it in two simple sentences, Ace exe suited, is a "small limit" hand, not a "big limit" hand. Of course, in NO limit, the hand becomes more valuable, if, and only if, the players are STUPID enough, to put in all their chips, in a flush vrs. flush situation. Note: this does NOT apply, if most players do not have the yuck!! "Maximum" buy in, as you will not receive enough value, if you bust someone out with a smaller flush. AGAIN, BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL, IF YOU ONLY FLOP AN ACE, OR, EVEN THE SMALL ACES UP!! IF YOU ARE PLAYING NO LIMIT, AND HAVE A BIG STACK, AND ARE UP AGAINST ANOTHER BIG STACK, AND FLOP SAY, ACES AND FIVES, WITH A FLOP OF A J 5 , WATCH OUT, IF THE OPPONENT PUTS IN ALL HIS CHIPS. EVEN IF HE DOESN'T HAVE ACE JACK, OR A SET, AN ACE KING, WILL STILL BEAT YOU, ABOUT 30% OF THE TIME 'NUFF SAID ADAM THE EXPERT | ||
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| Re: Playing Ax Suited, backtoanalog, 24. Nov 2003 14:15 | ||
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| Adam, you make some great points in the midst of your convolution. I think we are in agreement...but I want to know exactly. I am deferring to you because I honestly think you have more experience than me. I made my comments based on a 3/6 to 5/10 game. If i hit an ace with no flush draw, 2 or 3 opponents, like you said I'm not going to check, I'll bet into it for info. someone raises i'm out. But if someone calls, I'll check on the turn and fold after a bet. Staying in with no kicker is the best way to lose your money. But, please explain how you get the 9% someone else has an Ace. | ||
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| Re: Playing Ax Suited, Rabman49, 24. Nov 2003 19:19 | ||
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| If I can limp in from middle to late position I'll play any Axs. If someone raises before me I muck. If someone raises after me I say "Oh shxx" and call it. The worse thing that can happen is to flop an Ace with rags and no flush draw. Then you think you actually have a hand when what you have is a marginal holding that will be out kicked a majority of the time. | ||
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| Re: Playing Ax Suited, Roy Cooke, 24. Nov 2003 20:21 | ||
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| Hi oboy It depends...If you are in a loose game with bad players, playing every AxSuited can be the right play....That said, if you are in a tight game with tough players you might want to think twice before playing it. If I am going to get volume on the hand or can "outplay" the field greatly then I am generally going to play the hand.....Volume can mean many players or much loose action from a few players....An important concept in the play of this hand is how your opponents react if you flop an ace.....If they pay off with any pair to the river it strenthens your hand greatly..... Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 21. Nov 2003 17:53 oboy wrote: > I regularly play Ax Suited. Is this a mistake? | ||
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