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Server Time: 2/13/2012 9:11:19 PM PACIFIC |
 Did I play this hand correctly in NL 50?, BoatLover88, 21. Nov 2003 09:09 | ||
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| I am in NL 50 on party poker. I am up to $56 and am in MP. I get 9 10 suited. I limp in and get to see the flop along with 3 others. Flop comes J Q K. I have a strait, but not the nuts. The first player makes a $9 bet, the 2nd player calls. There are two spades on the board and I figure the 2nd guy to be on a flush draw. To increase my odds vs him I go all in and hope he folds right there. EVERYONE calls. The ace comes, and a spade comes. The player after me had 2 pair on the flop, the first player had top pair on flop, the next guy had J 4 spades, called all in and won. I had a nut strait and lost all my money. Did I do something wrong? | ||
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| Re: Did I play this hand correctly in NL 50?, Jordan, 21. Nov 2003 10:23 | ||
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| Well I wouldn't call too much with 9/10 suited even in NL cash games. You're just asking to pay a bunch to 'find' out if your hand is best. With a board like that with coordinated high cards and flush and straight draws your hand is either 1. not best 2. very likely to get drawn out on. Thus I wouldn't take the risk myself but that is a question you want to ask yourself. On Party I just play the premium hands and I can win plenty off all the fish on there. I wouldn't waste my time or efforts and money with 9/10 suited. That's just me though. | ||
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| Re: Did I play this hand correctly in NL 50?, Schuster, 21. Nov 2003 10:45 | ||
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| If you believed your hand to be good, then there's not too much you can do to play that differently. It sounds as if you're upset that the J4 of spades won, but if you'll notice, when 3 others are going all in on the flop, he should call in a heartbeat. He's about even money to make 2 pair or better, and only a 2 to 1 dog to make the flush. With the pot paying better than 3 to 1, it's a good investment. Lee | ||
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| Re: Did I play this hand correctly in NL 50?, Jordan, 21. Nov 2003 11:03 | ||
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| or you can just avoid this decision altogether :) My thinking is this is more of a limit play. Somebody could have already held the A-10 for the nut straight (yours was not the nuts) and I don't want to get a lot of my money in a hand with multiple people in a hand with a better straight possibility, a strong flush draw, and the possibility of a set already and the potential for them to fill up. This would be different with fewer opponents but I just don't think this is a profitable play over the long run. A situation where I think you might act differently is one i faced last night when I had 7/8s from the small blind and the flop came 9,10,J. There was me and 2 others in the hand. I checked and he bet and I raised all-in with my chips (it was a tourney). The only hand that made me nervous was KQ. He called and turned over bottom two pair and I took down the pot. Then again I'm a VERY VERY conservative and tight player so you might choose to do differently :). | ||
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| Re: Did I play this hand correctly in NL 50?, BoatLover88, 21. Nov 2003 11:45 | ||
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| Thanks for the comments. That is what I was basically thinking all along. I don't think I should have gotten myself into the situation. | ||
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| Re: Did I play this hand correctly in NL 50?, ADAM THE EXPERT, 21. Nov 2003 16:56 | ||
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| GOOD QUESTION BOATLOVER. (THOUGHT I'D BE A LITTLE LESS INSULTING, ONCE IN A WHILE) TEE HEE!! JUST KIDDING!! I LIKE THIS QUESTION, BECAUSE IT BRINGS UP TWO VERY IMPORTANT POINTS: FIRST OF ALL, YES, YOU DID DO SOMETHING WRONG. ADAM THE EXPERT TEACHES, THAT YOU DO NOT LIMP IN, IN THESE MICRO LIMIT NO LIMIT GAMES. EITHER THROW THE HAND AWAY, OR MAKE AT LEAST THE MINIMUM RAISE. THE LAST THING IN THE WORLD YOU NEED, IS TO HIT YOUR HAND, AND NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY IN THE POT TO ATTRACT CALLERS. SO, WITH 10 9 SUITED, I WOULD HAVE MADE IT A BUCK AND A HALF. BUT, OTHERWISE, YOU DID FINE. IN WINNING POKER, WE ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT COULD HIT, ONLY IF WE ARE THE FAVORITE TO WIN THE HAND, OR A MONEY FAVORITE (RECEIVING MORE POT ODDS, THAN THE ODDS OF MAKING OUR HAND) IN THIS CASE, YOU WILL WIN THE POT, A WHOPPING 50 PERCENT OF THE TIME!!!!! OK, ALL YOU "EGGHEADS" OUT THERE: IT'S ACTUALLY 50.5% BUT WHOS COUNTING!! SO, HALF THE TIME, YOU LOSE YOUR FORTY SOMETHING BUCKS, AND HALF THE TIME YOU GAIN THIS AMOUNT, FROM THREE CALLERS, SO THIS IS A VERY HIGH "EXPECTED VALUE" (EV, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN ABBREVIATIONS) SITUATION. OK, NEXT CONCEPT: AMOUNTS IF YOU WERE PLAYING IN A GIANT GAME, AND YOU SOLD YOUR HOUSE, AND HAD EVERY CENT YOU HAD IN THE WORLD, YOU MIGHT NOT WANT TO CALL THIS BET, AS YOU MAY HAVE RUN UP AGAINST THE NUTS, AND/OR SUBSEQUENTLY GET OUTDRAWN. BUT, FOR ONLY FORTY SOME ODD DOLLARS, GO FOR IT. LEARN TO ADJUST YOUR THINKING, TO PROFESSIONAL THINKING: WHEN YOU GET OUTDRAWN IN THE SITUATION< TRY TO THINK "HEY, I JUST WON A HUNDRED DOLLARS (YOUR EXPECTED VALUE <EV> ON THE HAND) BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT YOU WILL EARN IN THIS SITUATION, OVER THE LONG HAUL, AND THAT'S WHAT COUNTS. I HAVE A FRIEND, WITH A LOT OF MONEY, AND HE MAKES HIS LIVING IN PROFESSIONAL GAMBLING. CAN BE ANYTHING, AS LONG AS HE HAS THE EDGE. HE ONCE COMMISSIONED ME, TO COMPUTE WHO WOULD BE THE FAVORITE, IN A "MONOPOLY" PROPOSAL. THE RULES WERE GOING TO BE ALTERED IN SOME WAY, THAT I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT, I FIGURED OUT THAT HE WOULD BE ALMOST SURE TO WIN. SO, IF YOU WANTED TO FLIP A COIN WITH HIM, AND PAY HIM $10,000 IF HE WON, BUT ONLY COLLECT $9800 IF YOU WON, HE WOULD DO IT. THEN, AFTER THE FLIP, WHETHER HE WON OR LOST, HE WOULD THINK TO HIMSELF "HEY, I JUST MADE A HUNDRED DOLLARS" EXPECTED VALUE, LEARN IT, KNOW IT, LIVE IT. ADAM | ||
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| Re: Did I play this hand correctly in NL 50?, shorn, 25. Nov 2003 07:49 | ||
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| So what you are saying is that your decison should be based on how much money you brought to the game???? This is the last stupid post of yours that I will EVER read. | ||
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| Re: Did I play this hand correctly in NL 50?, shorn, 25. Nov 2003 07:47 | ||
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| This is a real tough one. I, like you, play the NL tables to see a lot of flops and then wait it out to win one or two really big hands. So, I would call with T9s in MP as well. The thing that would bother me is the caller of the $9 bet. That board is very coordinated and therefore someone could very easily have AT here. Since the board has two flush cards as well, I would consider dumping my low str8 here unless I was OTB and no other action could follow me. There is just too good a chance that you will get out drawn if you are behind. With a rainbow flop, it is more questionable and with a three suited flop, bye bye T9 without thinking). Remember...in these games you are playing a lot of flops to hit your moster and despite the fact that you have a made hand, it doesn't qualify as a monster BECAUSE of the action in front of you. I would fold. | ||
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| Re: Did I play this hand correctly in NL 50?, Aisthesis, 25. Nov 2003 11:21 | ||
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| I agree with shorn, although it's awfully hard to lay that down. But if I understand the betting correctly, there should have been just 3.5 BB in the pot before the flop, then it comes to you at 18 BB on the flop. AT would indeed have been the first thing that crossed my mind. So, I think the all-in was a really bad choice, since the enormous flop bet (unless it's a really crazy bluff) is really saying that that player would like to take it all in. I just don't think the pre-flop pot is worth fighting for at those stakes and with the vulnerabilities you've got on that flop. I don't think it's really a sin to occasionally fold the best hand (with good reason), but it is nearly a sin to lose it all on the second best hand unless there were really compelling reasons to continue with it. | ||
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| Re: Did I play this hand correctly in NL 50?, palman, 25. Nov 2003 11:39 | ||
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| I think that the 9 bet screams more 2 pair than the nut straight at the time. Most people do not make a bet that is intended to drive people out with the nuts in the hand. Certainly someone does it, but that would not be the standard play with A10. The second caller is either on an open ended straight draw (10) the flush draw, or the nuts with A10. So if you push all in and get both callers, it is a positive EV play because you're going to win 50% of the time, but you're getting 2:1 on your money. If only one person calls you are also getting a positive EV since you are a favorite over either of the other hands possible except A10. As long as you're playing within your bankroll.... I like your play and would push it as well. | ||
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| Re: Did I play this hand correctly in NL 50?, shorn, 25. Nov 2003 11:49 | ||
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| I think the nut str8 pushed all-in with a 2 flush on the board. With a rainbow flop, I agree that pushing in is probably the better play and if AT is out there, oh well. But the two flush and the action in front of you, PLUS the potential for more action behind you makes what looks like a great situation a fold to me. | ||
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