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Server Time: 2/13/2012 2:48:14 PM PACIFIC |
 Speaking of small connectors..., noiseboy, 19. Nov 2003 11:14 | ||
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| There is an interesting post over on rgp called "the Power of 64o" that sparked some discussions over there. OK, so I'm interested in what everyone thinks about when it is ok to play the small connectors in limit hold'em. Personally, I like them in the following situations: I'm on the button with 4 or more limpers, I will call with something like 76s. I might even call a single raise with 5 or more people in, IF I don't think it will be raised again. Obviously, if I am immediately after the raiser, I probably don't want to get stuck in there on the installment plan. If I'm on the SB I will call a half bet no matter how many players are in, after all, it's just a half bet. Actually, I often play where there is a 2/3 SB which I will complete with any two suited, or any two connected. I have learned to play very carefully with the junk hands that a third bet entices me to play unless I hit the flop HARD. If I'm in the BB I will call a single raise with any suited connector down to 45s, with offsuit connectors I like to have a 76 at least. Suited or off, I prefer if there has been at least one caller of the raise. Anyway, I'm interested to know what your everyone elses "rules of thumb" are for playing these hands. | ||
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| Re: Speaking of small connectors..., Roy Cooke, 19. Nov 2003 16:27 | ||
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| Hi NoiseBoy I don't like to use "Rules of Thumb" ....When I start to do that I get sloppy and play on auto-pilot. I don't think you put enough emphasis on the situation in your "Rules".....You need to think more of what you are up against and how will it play. Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 19. Nov 2003 11:14 noiseboy wrote: > There is an interesting post over on rgp called "the Power of 64o" that sparked > some discussions over there. > > OK, so I'm interested in what everyone thinks about when it is ok to play the > small connectors in limit hold'em. Personally, I like them in the following > situations: > > I'm on the button with 4 or more limpers, I will call with something like 76s. > I might even call a single raise with 5 or more people in, IF I don't think it > will be raised again. Obviously, if I am immediately after the raiser, I > probably don't want to get stuck in there on the installment plan. > > If I'm on the SB I will call a half bet no matter how many players are in, > after all, it's just a half bet. Actually, I often play where there is a 2/3 SB > which I will complete with any two suited, or any two connected. I have learned > to play very carefully with the junk hands that a third bet entices me to play > unless I hit the flop HARD. > > If I'm in the BB I will call a single raise with any suited connector down to > 45s, with offsuit connectors I like to have a 76 at least. Suited or off, I > prefer if there has been at least one caller of the raise. > > Anyway, I'm interested to know what your everyone elses "rules of thumb" are > for playing these hands. | ||
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| Re: Speaking of small connectors..., KJo, 19. Nov 2003 23:48 | ||
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| Here's one rule of thumb that kind of works though- whenever you're in the SB and find yourself thinking, "WTF, it's only 1/2 a bet," you DON'T have enough to call with out of position. Eli on 19. Nov 2003 16:27 Roy Cooke wrote: > Hi NoiseBoy > > I don't like to use "Rules of Thumb" ....When I start to do that I get sloppy and > play on auto-pilot. I don't think you put enough emphasis on the situation in your > "Rules".....You need to think more of what you are up against and how will it play. > > Life is Good :-) > Roy Cooke > > on 19. Nov 2003 11:14 noiseboy wrote: > > There is an interesting post over on rgp called "the Power of 64o" that sparked > > some discussions over there. > > > > OK, so I'm interested in what everyone thinks about when it is ok to play the > > small connectors in limit hold'em. Personally, I like them in the following > > situations: > > > > I'm on the button with 4 or more limpers, I will call with something like 76s. > > I might even call a single raise with 5 or more people in, IF I don't think it > > will be raised again. Obviously, if I am immediately after the raiser, I > > probably don't want to get stuck in there on the installment plan. > > > > If I'm on the SB I will call a half bet no matter how many players are in, > > after all, it's just a half bet. Actually, I often play where there is a 2/3 SB > > > which I will complete with any two suited, or any two connected. I have learned > > > to play very carefully with the junk hands that a third bet entices me to play > > unless I hit the flop HARD. > > > > If I'm in the BB I will call a single raise with any suited connector down to > > 45s, with offsuit connectors I like to have a 76 at least. Suited or off, I > > prefer if there has been at least one caller of the raise. > > > > Anyway, I'm interested to know what your everyone elses "rules of thumb" are > > for playing these hands. | ||
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| Re: Speaking of small connectors..., noiseboy, 20. Nov 2003 09:37 | ||
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| This is true, I'm not advocating calling with just anything. In Phil H.'s book, he says he will call a single raise in the BB with ANY suited connector, even down to 23s. Personally, I won't go any lower than 45s. In the SB it seems to make a difference whether it's a half bet or or third bet. I mean c'mon, you are 2/3 of the way there, if you have multiple limpers you should probably call the 1/3 with just about anything halfway reasonable. This brings up the question of "What is halfway reasonable?" This is of course dependent on the fact that you realize that the trashier your hand, the harder you must hit the flop. Anyway, I was just sharing some of the hands I will play from the SB and the BB, hoping others would share their opinions on what is playable. Apparently, people aren't that into it, so maybe I'll have better luck on the next post. | ||
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| Re: Speaking of small connectors..., noiseboy, 20. Nov 2003 09:49 | ||
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| BTW, when I say, it's only a half bet, or only a third bet, what I really mean is that there are a lot of situations where calling has a higher EV than folding. With folding you know exactly what your EV is, it is -.25BB or -.33BB. Since you will go throught the SB several times an hour, if you aren't seeing enough flops from the SB, that can add up to .75 or 1BB an hour depending on how fast the table is and whether the SB is 1/2 or 2/3. Sometimes with a hand like 76s and some callers, I think you are definitely better off completing. I guess I should order TTH and run some sims or something. With a 2/3 SB, not completing enough could be a bona fide leak. However, I do realize that most players leak chips the other direction of calling too loosely from the SB and getting into situations where the bad position sinks them for several bets. This is often a problem with their play postflop rather than preflop, ie, overvaluing the flop when they get a small piece but with crummy position for all betting rounds. | ||
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| Re: Speaking of small connectors..., ReMMy, 19. Nov 2003 16:44 | ||
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| Yah, I think you need to come up with a better reason than "its just half a bet". How many times are you in the SB in any given day? Week? Month? Year? Multiply that by "just half a bet" and you may be quite surprised, let alone the money you may lose with a second best hand. Try asking yourself "Why am I entering a raised pot with 78o?" If its because there are 4 other players and your call will finish the betting, alright, but if there's only 2 other players and the raiser is a solid player from EP, then you need to consider the possibility that the play has a -EV due to your position and lack of other players in the pot... You may also want to try pokertracker or some other software to see just how much you make/lose from certain positions with certains hands. | ||
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| Re: Speaking of small connectors..., noiseboy, 20. Nov 2003 09:42 | ||
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| With an early position raise, that of course requires some respect from me, especially from the SB. Of course you have to adjust to the situation. This was my whole question, what situations do you like those hands in. Personally, I prefer to do most of my gambling with medium and small pairs as opposed to small suited connectors because they are more resilient, but there are some situations where I play the small connectors. On the whole, I'm coming to agree with Jon Vorhaus when he refers to them as the "stupid connectors". However, it's interesting to note that even he plays them sometimes, despite his low opinion of them. | ||
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