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Server Time: 11/20/2008 4:16:32 PM PACIFIC |
 Playing next hand after a win in NL, Aisthesis, 16. Nov 2003 11:00 | ||
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| Throughout his NLHE section, Brunson emphasizes his principle of "always" staying the next hand (and frequently raising) after he has won one, but I am having some trouble with the function of this play. True, it keeps the pressure on and implies an "I want more" attitude. But it also seems like a good way to lose the money you just made in many cases. So, I'd be interested to hear what people here think of this idea. My current thoughts on this, broken down by various kinds of wins: 1) I (usually in LP in this case) successfully bought a pot. Here, I usually won only a small pot. And while the small wins add up, they really don't add up if you cut into them by playing a crappy hand out of principle on the next hand. Moreover, nobody's particularly intimidated by the pot-buy. They just regret that they didn't have a hand they could play back at me. I really see no reason at all to play the next hand in this case--unless a good pocket is really there. I do think the pot-buy gives you some license to play a GOOD hand a little more aggressively than usual, but that's it. 2) You won a small to medium-size pot with a solid hand that didn't make it to showdown but was probably good. As in case 1, I still see no license to play trash on the next hand. 3) You just won a big pot without showdown. Now we're getting into territory where you may have your opponents intimidated. Even raising trash pre-flop might be worth a try sometimes, but if you get several callers and no flop, for sure let it go IMMEDIATELY. And frankly, a pre-flop raise on trash here would seem to me to be more the exception than the rule. In my experience, my opponents typically don't play scared there but are really eager for an opportunity to win their money back, hence will play somewhat more aggressively. And that's really more of an argument for not even limping with a trash hand, since they'll really be more intimidated if they can win nothing from you with their good hands while you have won big with yours. On the other hand, if you did get lucky and hit a good flop even with trash, your implied odds have gone way up because your opponents are now really wanting to bet if they hit something. So, maybe one could try limping, at least, in this situation with a trash hand like 76o because if you do get lucky and hit, you can probably win big. But I'd really still have to disagree with Brunson's "always" here. I think it's really better to just go ahead and fold hands like Q5o or something in this situation. 4) You just won a big pot at showdown with a bomb hand. This is really the only situation where I can see raising pre-flop with trash at all. Opponents are thinking you're on a roll and should be very hesitant to call aggressive bets. But here, too, you obviously still need to watch out if someone doesn't hesitate to call or play back at you. Sorry this turned into such a long post, but this Brunson idea has been bothering me somewhat, and I feel like the above is about as far as I can really take it. But I'd be very interested to hear if the folks here disagree...or agree... | ||
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| Re: Playing next hand after a win in NL, Piers Majestyk, 16. Nov 2003 16:17 | ||
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| Play your solid game and forget about that always play the next hand after a win. With the competition you are generally facing in these online games there is no need to get fancy playing trash, just stick to the winning game plan, solid hands, solid position. | ||
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| Re: Playing next hand after a win in NL, Aisthesis, 16. Nov 2003 17:26 | ||
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| Yes, I'm really inclined to agree and again appreciate the advice. Do you really see a function there under any circumstances? --with the one exception mentioned above of just having won a huge pot and you think your opponents might be intimidated... otherwise, I just really don't see why one should do it at all. | ||
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| Re: Playing next hand after a win in NL, kennycatkiller, 16. Nov 2003 18:40 | ||
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| You are not Doyle Brunson--hence you do not inspire fear in your opponents like he does. What he is talking about is when he wins one, playing the next hand allows him (possibly) to win another. That is how a RUSH gets started! And, of course, you do not have the hand-reading skills Brunson has, nor, I would guess, his bankroll. While it might be easy enough for an opponent with, say, pocket jacks, to call a $5 or $10 raise, it is not quite the same as calling $10,000 or $15,000, knowing that the next bet might be more than you paid for your house. Kennycatkiller | ||
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| Re: Playing next hand after a win in NL, Aisthesis, 17. Nov 2003 00:25 | ||
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| Sorry, I certainly didn't mean to try that. I'm just seeking advice while trying to learn to apply some of Brunson's moves in order to improve my game. | ||
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| Re: Playing next hand after a win in NL, gary ford, 17. Nov 2003 10:08 | ||
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| on 17. Nov 2003 00:25 Aisthesis wrote: > Sorry, I certainly didn't mean to try that. I'm just seeking advice while trying to learn > to apply some of Brunson's moves in order to improve my game. The thing that many people overlook id that was then and this is now. Taking nothing away from Brunsons marveous career, his book was written in1978 and he was almost exclusively a no limit player. He excelled because of his image, his fearlessness, and his ability to read the other players. The game of poker, as played today at anything but the highest levels, is very different, as are the players. The sheer volume of players and the 24 hour availibility of games, online or B&M, is unprecedented. The proliferation of TV poker will only accelerate that trend. Read other books--lots of them--try to apply something from each one to YOUR game. You aren't Brunson or Hellmuth or Gus Hansen, youre not even Varkonyi, but you can be the best YOU can be by studying and applying what you learn. | ||
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| Re: Playing next hand after a win in NL, Jordan, 17. Nov 2003 08:44 | ||
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| While I own and have read that section in Brunson's book I don't see how it applies to the normal player. Online players are passive and call and tend to like to bluff a lot as well. I'd show them down good cards. The only time I really bluff or ride a rush is after I've shown down good hand after good hand after good hand, I've built up a reputation as a solid player, and ONLY THEN will I try to bluff at the pot or raise with marginal holdings. Only then can you really get people to back off. Otherwise you are just pissing away your money. | ||
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| Re: Playing next hand after a win in NL, noiseboy, 18. Nov 2003 09:08 | ||
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| I think when you read Brunson, you have to translate a bit. I think his play any two cards after you won a pot idea is more for when you are on a big rush and people are intimidated because you've been showing down good hands all the time you've been called, and you've won a lot of pots with huge bets that nobody called, and you've got the biggest stack at the table. I think the conditions need to be right. You also need to sense weakness from whatever opponents have come into the pot. Overall, I think there are times when you can play ANY two cards, but for most players, this should be limited to extremely good situations. For example, it's folded around to you in the cutoff and the blinds are weak players, maybe you should raise with 72o. Doyle would probably raise the pot blind in such a situation. | ||
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