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Server Time: 9/4/2008 10:01:14 PM PACIFIC |
 that pesky AXs..., athos, 14. Nov 2003 15:57 | ||
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| I'm a low limit hold'em player (3-6 to 9-18) who is stuck in a quandary. I would like to get players' takes on whether or not to call A-X (especially 6,7,8,9 no straight possibilities)suited from early and middle position. I feel that (1) the risk of flopping a naked Ace (i.e. an unbettable pair) (2) the infrequency of flopping let alone making a draw; and (3) the inability to bet it for maximum value in those rare occasions when I make the nut flush make it an uncallable hand from early position. I would be especially interested in any theory you all have on the number of callers necessary to play the hand for profit. I've been folding the hand recently for the above reasons. Then (of course) last night I folded A4s in early position on a 4-8 kill pot and would have flopped the nut draw and made my hand on the turn. The killer was drunk and betting wildly. He built a great pot that was eventually won by a caller with a lower flush (96s). This hand is a source of continual frustration . I have a poker buddy, whose play I respect, who swears by (and wins with) this hand. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. | ||
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| Re: that pesky AXs..., mkpoker, 14. Nov 2003 16:01 | ||
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| I think we've had this thread many, many times before. My theory (which I think is shared by most but not all) is that Axs is generally playable from late position only. The possible exception is if you're playing at a loose-passive table, where you can feel relatively secure that you'll get 5-6 callers in an unraised pot every hand. These tables are rare, but they're out there. The golden rule for Axs is 1. See the flop cheap or not all; and 2. Muck to any real interest unless you flop a flush draw, trips, or 2-pair. | ||
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| Re: that pesky AXs..., Blue Sky, 14. Nov 2003 16:32 | ||
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| Athos, I rather like playing this hand from any position. There are a few things you must take into consideration before ever playing this or similar hands. 1. How is the table? You want multiple callers and you want to limp in for the price of the blinds and not play for a raise. Since your in EP you are sort of taking a chance on this particular hand but over the course of time you should have a pretty decent read on which way the table is playing pre-flop. 2. How is your post flop play? You are only playing Axs for a couple of reasons, first and for most, for the flush and secondly for a lucky hand such as trips or two pair. As I said your playing this mostly for the flush draw, if you miss are your skills strong enough to laydown a "naked" Ace? I think that most players get into trouble because they enter a pot pre-flop for one reason and end up playing the hand for the wrong reasons such as the "naked" Ace. 2a. What are you going to do with the flush draw? If your simply going to be a calling station then you probably should avoid the hand all together anyways but if your going to make some moves and make it a profitable hand then you will love this hand. Many low limit players cannot read their opponents and won't know if your raising with TPTK, two pair, a set, or the nut flush draw....they will pay you off almost everytime not matter what scare cards are on the board. In general I prefer to be on a loose passive table when I play Axs. This hand becomes profitable with atleast 3 or more callers and will almost always result in a decent sized pot when you hit your hand...just remeber to play it smart and fold when you miss the flush draw. | ||
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| Re: that pesky AXs..., Candide, 15. Nov 2003 13:05 | ||
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| I agree with Blue Sky and mkpoker on this for the most part. I think the keys to playing Axs is... First, play it from late position always for cheap, then depending on teh table texture, you can expand how early. Some tables you SHOULD play it from UTG. Especialy at some of the 1-2 and 2-4 tables, perhaps a bit below what youplay at. The ultimate goal is to get in for 1 bet. If you think you can do that from UTG, then you can. If it is a table that has a good amount of raising preflop, then get away early. Second, you are playing as they said...2 pair, flush, or trips on the flop. And you have to be wary of a full when you hit trips. Finally, when you do hit the 4 to the flush on the flop, BET IT. a bit better than 2 to 1 odds to fill your flush by the river. If you have 2 on all of your draws, you are going to make way more in the end. | ||
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| Re: that pesky AXs..., kennycatkiller, 14. Nov 2003 22:56 | ||
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| Ax suited is UNPLAYABLE from early position! Now, in N/L HoldEm, it might be worth limping in to get the nut flush draw, but in Limit, muck that sucker. Kennycatkiller | ||
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| Re: that pesky AXs..., Denver, 17. Nov 2003 10:02 | ||
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| The scenario I find most troublesome with this hand is if my X makes 2nd or bottom pair and there the board is uncoordinated and non-threatening. All of a sudden you start thinking about catching that Ace that will pair up another player and make your two pair. You anticipate seeing your suit, but how you deal with making a sub-optimal hand could very well determine the profitability of Axs. That's why playing it from up front is so tricky and can cause a few extra bets to leave your stack unnecessarily -- thus a leak can develop. | ||
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