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Server Time: 9/4/2008 9:30:48 PM PACIFIC |
 Tough player to figure, h82lose, 14. Nov 2003 07:26 | ||
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| Maybe you all can help with this one. This one guy we play poker with, amazes me. This guy plays real loose, chases everything, is a compulsive liar, a big bluffer, and hasnt worked in over 10 years, and to top it all off, he drinks like a fish while we play. The problem? He ALWAYS wins! I cant read him at all. I actually caught a fullhouse last time on the turn, and had him betting into to me like he had to be somewhere else in 10 minutes. I lost to a higher pair. We both had trip jacks, I had 10s and he had Qs. The flop was JQJ, I totally let his constant bluffing get the better of me here, cause i never put him on JQ, I was just so confident that i finally got him! Now I know, when he is raising like that he is not bluffing. Any hints on other tells i could possibly get off this guy? Im sure we all have one of these guys in our circle of players? I love bringing this guy with to new games, because he just baffles everyone as he takes there money!! Kind of funny! h82lose | ||
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| Re: Tough player to figure, danimales, 14. Nov 2003 08:12 | ||
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| I've played with people similar to this, but not to this extreme! The player I have played with didn't have a clue, would chase everything, bet out of turn, forget what game we were playing, yadda yadda. Anyway, I found the best way to beat him would be to let him have his way (cheaply, that is) for a while, then raise the heck out of him when my monster hand finally hit. Eventually, this would suck him dry. I don't know your situation completely, but this might help. Secondly I suspect his play and persona has you and others very distracted, and therefore don't necessarily make the same plays you would normally. Who knows, this may be a front he puts on just for this purpose! Offer to play him head to head a couple times. That might help you get used to his antics, and, drunkeness... er whatever else this guy does. | ||
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| Re: Tough player to figure, MrTeLLnj, 14. Nov 2003 10:29 | ||
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| SEE YOU AT THE TAJ or TROPICANA. from what i have seen , drunks or drinkers , or people who are just 3 sheets to the wind are always bluffing when they kinda stand up and yell. they may stand up and talk alot or push them selfs up onto the table to stair at cards, From what i have seen look out for when and if he or she stands up and starts yapping about nothing | ||
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| Re: Tough player to figure, LKP, 14. Nov 2003 23:05 | ||
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| See my above reply to "Learning Brunson in NL". I think that might help give you an idea of why this guy wins so much. With the exception of tells, there are two main weapons you have. 1) Take the lead from him. Don't let him bluff you, you bluff him. When he bets out, move all-in. Granted, this is scary, but you have put him in a spot where he will have to call you and showdown. There's no more bluffing he can do. Also, he might lose a big stack of chips if he doesn't win. You can get the edge on him by being more selective about the hands you do raise him with. And if you can, try to also sit to the left of him. 2) Just call when you have a good hand. He will put in bet after bet after bet, and if you have a damn good hand, he'll notice your slow-playing. That will kinda throw him off. As far as tells, there are a few things to look for. 1) Look for how his bet relates to the pot and/or his established patterns. Is his bet always the size of the pot? Or does he sometimes bet just a little less or just a little more? This difference can sometimes be a little indicative of what he feels the strength of his hand is. 2) Look for if he has a pattern of counting or just grabbing chips. It probably won't be as obvious as him meticulously counting a pot sized bet when he has the nuts and just tossing in chips when he's bluffing, but nevertheless it could be something to look for. Don't just look at the counting, also look at the decision process as he's reaching for chips. Perhaps when he bluffs he will put his hand around some chips and then subtlely decide to slide his hand down and grab a little more chips from his stack. Or perhaps he only does that when he has the nuts. 3) Another very stupid thing that sometimes can possibly be a tell. I know in my home games we use several colors of chips with differing increments, almost like coins. One would be $.25, one $1, one $2.50, one $5, one $10. Watch how he uses this fact (if it's true of your games). For instance, if he's bluffing he might put in 10 bucks as 10 one dollar chips to make the chips seem more numerous. Then when he's got the nuts he may just put in one 10 dollar chip or two 5 dollar chips. Of course, the tell could also work the exact opposite, and he could put in 10 $1 chips when he has the nuts. If nothing else works, get more people in your game. His type of play gets eaten up when there's a full table of tight aggressive players. | ||
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| Re: Tough player to figure, Phish, 18. Nov 2003 09:25 | ||
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| on 14. Nov 2003 07:26 h82lose wrote: > Maybe you all can help with this one. > > This one guy we play poker with, amazes me. > > This guy plays real loose, chases everything, is a compulsive liar, a big > bluffer, and hasnt worked in over 10 years, and to top it all off, he drinks > like a fish while we play. > > The problem? He ALWAYS wins! > > I cant read him at all. I actually caught a fullhouse last time on the turn, > and had him betting into to me like he had to be somewhere else in 10 minutes. I > lost to a higher pair. We both had trip jacks, I had 10s and he had Qs. The flop > was JQJ, I totally let his constant bluffing get the better of me here, cause i > never put him on JQ, I was just so confident that i finally got him! Now I know, > when he is raising like that he is not bluffing. > > Any hints on other tells i could possibly get off this guy? > > Im sure we all have one of these guys in our circle of players? > > I love bringing this guy with to new games, because he just baffles everyone as > he takes there money!! Kind of funny! > > h82lose > > I suspect from reading your post that despite all his shortcomings, he still plays better than the rest of you. I'd advice you to focus on improving your own game, which probably has some fundamental flaws for the game you're playing, which sounds like a real loose game where the pot odds often justifies chasing and in which his frequent bluffing gets him incredible action on his strong hands. You on the other hand, are probably folding too many profitable draws and don't get enough action when you're strong. > | ||
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