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Server Time: 8/20/2008 3:32:10 AM PACIFIC |
 Opinions on Tourney Play, Fat Al, 13. Nov 2003 12:09 | ||
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| Okay, I'm playing a 10/1 PL tourney last night on pokerstars. About 550 entrants, down to 2 tables. 3000/6000 blinds, I have about T80,000 in chips (top 5). I pick up AcAd in late-middle position. 1 person makes a small raise in front of me, I make the max raise to T27,000. Blinds fold, raiser calls. Flop comes three small spades, other player makes middle bet, I move in. Other player flips K-7 spades and I'm gone (or close, I think I had T4000 left) with my 65 bucks. Where did I go wrong? I certainly didn't want to play recklessly at that point with my stack, but my pre-flop raise was obviously right. Should I have just called on the flop? I don't think so, the odds against the other player holding 2 spades were pretty high, but they also could have flopped a set I guess. I wasn't going to give the other guy a free look at another card, so the choice on the flop seemed raise or fold. Folding aces into that flop just doesn't seem right. Thoughts? | ||
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| Re: Opinions on Tourney Play, KJo, 13. Nov 2003 13:51 | ||
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| I'll preface by saying PL is not my game, but here goes anyway: The fact that the better bet into you on the flop after you made a huge pre-flop raise indicates either strength or complete stupidity. He's gotta think there's a strong chance you have an overpair. Since he bets out, he can probably beat that. Lets say though that he was a single spade- he has a lot of outs, especially if he also paired the flop. If he has a set or a flush obviously you're already toast. It's unlikely he would bet into that flop with nothing but an overpair, particularly after your pre-flop raise. I'd probably still call the flop bet, but I wouldn't go all in. I'd like to see how he played the turn after getting called, he could have just been looking for info. Eli on 13. Nov 2003 12:09 Fat Al wrote: > Okay, I'm playing a 10/1 PL tourney last night on pokerstars. About 550 > entrants, down to 2 tables. 3000/6000 blinds, I have about T80,000 in chips > (top 5). I pick up AcAd in late-middle position. 1 person makes a small raise > in front of me, I make the max raise to T27,000. Blinds fold, raiser calls. > Flop comes three small spades, other player makes middle bet, I move in. Other > player flips K-7 spades and I'm gone (or close, I think I had T4000 left) with > my 65 bucks. > > Where did I go wrong? I certainly didn't want to play recklessly at that point > with my stack, but my pre-flop raise was obviously right. Should I have just > called on the flop? I don't think so, the odds against the other player holding > 2 spades were pretty high, but they also could have flopped a set I guess. I > wasn't going to give the other guy a free look at another card, so the choice on > the flop seemed raise or fold. Folding aces into that flop just doesn't seem > right. > > Thoughts? | ||
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| Re: Opinions on Tourney Play, Fat Al, 13. Nov 2003 15:26 | ||
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| on 13. Nov 2003 13:51 KJo wrote: > The fact that the better bet into you on the flop after you made a huge pre-flop > raise indicates either strength or complete stupidity. He's gotta think there's a > strong chance you have an overpair. Since he bets out, he can probably beat that. Thanks for your thoughts. In retrospect, just calling on the flop seems right, but I'm just not sure your point above is completely true. There is no question that the person had something, but throwing a mid-sized bet at the pot is not to me necessarily a sign of either strength or stupidity in that spot. It was also a perfect time for a semi-bluff. Let's say the other player is holding JJ, one spade. They would almost certainly bet out in that spot, representing the flush. If I get scared that they are slow-playing the flush, I fold my big pair or AK, if they get called they have draws. Raising is the only way to flush that player out (and that type of hand seemed much more likely to me than two spades -- if the bet is the result of a small set, at least I have outs). I guess my problem is that I can't decide if I would do it again. At this point I think I would still raise on the flop, but not move in. But I'll be thinking about that hand quite a bit more before I come to a final conclusion. | ||
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| Re: Opinions on Tourney Play, tron, 13. Nov 2003 17:51 | ||
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| you did right u got the best of it preflop, just that he hit was that bad part. | ||
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| Re: Opinions on Tourney Play, KJo, 14. Nov 2003 14:08 | ||
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| Got news for you though- with that board, a player with JJ (one of spades) probably won't lay down to an all in bet. I'd still call the flop bet and be done with the hand on the turn if worse things develop. He had showed too much strength, and your hand has not improved. Eli on 13. Nov 2003 15:26 Fat Al wrote: > on 13. Nov 2003 13:51 KJo wrote: > > > The fact that the better bet into you on the flop after you made a huge pre-flop > > raise indicates either strength or complete stupidity. He's gotta think there's a > > strong chance you have an overpair. Since he bets out, he can probably beat that. > > Thanks for your thoughts. In retrospect, just calling on the flop seems right, but I'm > just not sure your point above is completely true. There is no question that the person > had something, but throwing a mid-sized bet at the pot is not to me necessarily a sign of > either strength or stupidity in that spot. It was also a perfect time for a semi-bluff. > Let's say the other player is holding JJ, one spade. They would almost certainly bet out > in that spot, representing the flush. If I get scared that they are slow-playing the > flush, I fold my big pair or AK, if they get called they have draws. Raising is the only > way to flush that player out (and that type of hand seemed much more likely to me than two > spades -- if the bet is the result of a small set, at least I have outs). > > I guess my problem is that I can't decide if I would do it again. At this point I think > I would still raise on the flop, but not move in. But I'll be thinking about that hand > quite a bit more before I come to a final conclusion. | ||
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| Re: Opinions on Tourney Play, SpaceAce, 14. Nov 2003 03:32 | ||
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| He called a gigantic raise pre-flop then bet into you after the flop. I think you should have laid it down. At most, I would have called. I can't see coming over the top of the guy for an all-in after he bet into you despite your pre-flop raise. SpaceAce | ||
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